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  • #16
    If you continue providing the STBX with benefits then this is actually a form of spousal support. You would be admitting some level of entitlement.

    I suspect the stbx's lawyer is trying to persuade you to do this so that there is a better chance for spousal support.

    You are under no obligation to support your ex in any way, unless and until they prove entitlement to support. Be very careful about agreeing to pay any of your ex's personal expenses.

    If you are willing to accept a role of in loco parentis, then by all means keep the child on the benefits. If you are fulfilling this role than you should also have access visits. If the child doesn't agree with this, then it's hard to argue that you are seen as a parental figure. Don't be harsh, but feel this out and think it over.

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    • #17
      Also keep in mind that you may only have one spouse on your benefits package. If and when you start a new relationship, what happens then? There are ways around it, but you should certainly inform your provider about the situation.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by HappyDays View Post
        I would definitely speak to your own lawyer first, as well as HR and insurance.

        Length of CL/marriage might have something to do with it...

        I just read some case laws on canlii that dealt with cl and health benefits. They had to find out what a similar benefits plan would cost (which was $150/mth for them). Then the father was ordered to keep his ex-cl on his benefits for as long as he has access to the benefits, or he could pay her the $150/mth.

        hey happydays...yea shortly after we separated and I had a change of address, my lawyer suggested I contact GWL to confirm whether or not they'd still cover her...cuz apparently after I moved out, there's a 30 day timelimit of alerting the health care provider about the change of status??

        I contacted my HR dept (one of the girls here) and she basically stated I could leave her on until a final decision is made (court decision) and everything is final??...not sure how true all that is..

        basically I've left her on the plan until we get this all settled.

        man!!...talk about confusion though!!...SH****TTTTT!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mess View Post
          Also keep in mind that you may only have one spouse on your benefits package. If and when you start a new relationship, what happens then? There are ways around it, but you should certainly inform your provider about the situation.
          hey thanks Mess...I agree with the one "spouse" on the benefits package..for a limited time..I mean I'm not planning on covering her for a lifetime..we wer CL for 11 years..


          ..I'm leaning away from the "flash and cash" type of gal and looking for a more educated type of woman to be honest..hopefully one that already has her S**T together and doesn't need a man to come in take over the position of the original bio dad (and I totaly mean that in a nice way really)..I'm to blame too...my bad for not seeing what she was after since day one (my $$ and the fact I have health benefits for her and her kids)..

          i know it's kinda rude and mean to say, but seriously..seeing this now..thats all she's really concerned about?? health benefits for her..(well of course SS tool...hey...why not...let's get some free cash outta him, right??)


          this is my 2nd CL (both fairly long relationships)..still paying CS to the 1st EX (although the kids are biologically mine)..luckily she was alright with no SS.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mess View Post
            If you continue providing the STBX with benefits then this is actually a form of spousal support. You would be admitting some level of entitlement.

            Exactly what I had hoped for but I'm hearing conflicting stories from others

            I suspect the stbx's lawyer is trying to persuade you to do this so that there is a better chance for spousal support.

            The impression I'm getting from the STBX'S lawyer is IF I'm unable to keep the STBX on my health plan (and she's already stated this in the 4-way meeting we had a few weeks back) she's going to go after full SS acording to the divorcemate guidelines.

            You are under no obligation to support your ex in any way, unless and until they prove entitlement to support. Be very careful about agreeing to pay any of your ex's personal expenses.

            I've also been told that if I take the STBX off the plan before case conference or settlement meeting, this could be viewed as being negative and malicious.

            If you are willing to accept a role of in loco parentis, then by all means keep the child on the benefits. If you are fulfilling this role than you should also have access visits. If the child doesn't agree with this, then it's hard to argue that you are seen as a parental figure. Don't be harsh, but feel this out and think it over.
            the child in question is a 17 year old female (18 years old by the end of this month) who (in my mind) wouldn't want to really hang out with her mom's ex BF..know what I'm saying Mess??...I mean yes we get along but with her allegiance to her mother

            .If she was asked in court if she'd like to have visitation with me, I'm willing to bet she'd say no, just to keep the peace in the house with her mother...I can totally understand this and wouldn't want to make the child feel uncomfortable.


            it's a confusing and somewhat different case I have here

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            • #21
              If it's completely free for you - whats the problem?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                If it's completely free for you - whats the problem?

                I can't have someone as a spouse/dependent under my plan when I don't actually live or cohabitate with them...as far as I understood anyways...again, maybe I'm incorrect...what I'm meaning to say is the STBX won't actually be a "spouse" any longer..soooo...yea...I'm confused as to having her still on my health benefits...is it fraud??...is it illegal??...is it corrupt...see what I'm saying??

                I just want to get a general consensus on what others have done here in the forum...see if anyone was or still is in the same boat..

                Comment


                • #23
                  Divorcemate automatically gives a number for spousal support, that doesn't mean anything. There must be entitlement, and it must be shown.

                  Did your ex work throughout the relationship?

                  Was their career in any way affected by the relationship?

                  How long was the relationship?

                  The fact that you earned more than someone doesn't mean there is spousal support.

                  Her lawyer represents her and will say things to you in order to get the best deal they can for her. Don't take anything the lawyer says as fact.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                    If it's completely free for you - whats the problem?
                    Because it is an admission that he has a responsibility to continue providing for her.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mess View Post
                      Divorcemate automatically gives a number for spousal support, that doesn't mean anything. There must be entitlement, and it must be shown.

                      Did your ex work throughout the relationship?

                      Was their career in any way affected by the relationship?

                      How long was the relationship?

                      The fact that you earned more than someone doesn't mean there is spousal support.

                      Her lawyer represents her and will say things to you in order to get the best deal they can for her. Don't take anything the lawyer says as fact.

                      Mess...seriously...I'll give you the court address and dates..I'll have you in on the case conference with me..lol...jk

                      ok I'll answer as best I can here

                      we were CL for 11 years..her having 2 children from a previous MARRIAGE (she's still legally married..well...she never changed her last name...it's still hyphenated with her ex's)

                      HER career was NOT affected at all...she actually got small increases yearly (cost of living??)...we never moved...we stayed and lived in HER house. (which I refurnished throughout the 11 years)

                      I make rougly 70G more per year than she does..

                      of course she's chasing after SS and CS..from all the threads and posts here (and some CANLII cases I've read)...SS isn't an entitlement anymore...it's pretty well a given...it's up to the judge to determine for how long...am I wrong??

                      Mess...I totally understand her lawyers trying her best to scare me..I'm just hoping half her S**T is just that!! S**T!!

                      I see more cases on CanLII where the ex husband/bf ends up paying SS than I do where the judge DENIES SS to the wife/gf...or is it just me??

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mess View Post
                        Because it is an admission that he has a responsibility to continue providing for her.

                        It's an admission??..on my part??

                        nooo...what happenned to the good old days where when a relations ends, it's just that!!...DONE??

                        lol...yes she has a child (2 actually) that I helped raise (son's out working fulltime)..it's the daughter she wants me to help pay CS for..

                        fine...I'm ok with that..but SS??..it's killing me to be honest..I moved into YOUR house where YOU lived a LAVISH DECENT lifestyle with your kids for 5-7 years ALONE because you asked your husband to leave WAAYYY before I moved in.

                        I HELPED....HELPED you raise the kids...refurnished your house.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Do a rough total of what you did for the house over the years. Do your best to estimate the cost of the materials, the hours of labour for each job, and the resulting effect on the value of the house.

                          Do your best to be fair and accurate, but this is for negotiation purposes so don't undervalue your work. Detail it and send it to her lawyer and state that she has been unjustly enriched (make sure you mention that term) during the course of the relationship and that if she feels an entitlement to spousal support that you will be seeking compensation for your work on the house, and a possible constructive trust claim. State that if she wishes negotiate you are open to that, but that negotiations means both sides will be willing to give up something.

                          Try to keep it business like and follow what I wrote as closely as possible. Remember you are negotiating here. Don't admit to owing her a cent. Of course she won't admit either. You are going to suggest that both parties can save legal costs by agreeing to settle and you await their next offer.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Keep in mind that only about 4% of cases that start out in family court ever make it to trial. That also doesn't include people who manage to settle without filing. The cases you find on Canlii are only a percentage of trials, not all of them are published. So just because you don't see something similar to your situation doesn't mean you will be paying spousal support.

                            Your CL relationship would not be considered long, and your arguments are:
                            1. She worked throughout the relationship and she was not in any way disadvantaged by it.
                            2. She benefitted from your contributions to the home.
                            3. She is fully employed and self-supporting.
                            Regarding CS remember that you are not just going to pay until she is 18. If she goes to post-secondary, then you will be supporting for another 4 years, and be paying probably roughly half (going by your incomes) of her tuition and expenses. Make sure you are happy to do this.

                            If the child refuses contact with you, this is grounds for ending CS, even if In Loco Parentis can be shown. If you are fond of her and she is willing to send you an email every now and then and you want to do this, then by all means go ahead. I completely respect that, and as she grows up she will look back and respect it too.

                            If she goes to post-sec you have every right to copies of tuition and expense receipts. She should be contributing at least a third of the cost. You and the mother should be splitting the rest proportionate to income.

                            Just be aware what you are signing up for before you admit anyone is entitled.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mess View Post
                              Do a rough total of what you did for the house over the years. Do your best to estimate the cost of the materials, the hours of labour for each job, and the resulting effect on the value of the house.

                              Do your best to be fair and accurate, but this is for negotiation purposes so don't undervalue your work. Detail it and send it to her lawyer and state that she has been unjustly enriched (make sure you mention that term) during the course of the relationship and that if she feels an entitlement to spousal support that you will be seeking compensation for your work on the house, and a possible constructive trust claim. State that if she wishes negotiate you are open to that, but that negotiations means both sides will be willing to give up something.

                              Try to keep it business like and follow what I wrote as closely as possible. Remember you are negotiating here. Don't admit to owing her a cent. Of course she won't admit either. You are going to suggest that both parties can save legal costs by agreeing to settle and you await their next offer.

                              already discussed that during the 4 way...I have receipts of EVERYTHING I purchased in the house...told her I'm willing to negiotiate.

                              her lawyer states fine..we'll knock off 2 grand out of the 9000 in arrears I owe her??...whaaa??..the bedroom set alone was over 1000...what about the tv, frdge, etc??..she states depreciation..

                              anyways...huge mess..her and her lawyer storm out of the 4 way stating fine...we'll see you at the case conference and I'll be putting in a motion to have your client (me) pay full costs..

                              soo...case conference is this month...we all hand in our case conference briefs this tuesday..the STBX's is like 28 pages long..really...BRIEF?...28 pages long??

                              my lawyer is quite comfortable thinking we're gonna benefit outta all this..of course she's gonna tell me that, right??

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Rawluk v. Rawluk, [1990] 1 SCR 70

                                About constructive trusts.

                                Comment

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