Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 07-14-2019, 01:14 PM
standing on the sidelines standing on the sidelines is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 5,490
standing on the sidelines is on a distinguished road
Default

I agree with all of it except for #4. Maybe raise the threshold of who can apply for it. Why should someone who can afford to pay a lawyer get legal aid just because the other side has it?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:20 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,043
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
I agree with all of it except for #4. Maybe raise the threshold of who can apply for it. Why should someone who can afford to pay a lawyer get legal aid just because the other side has it?
I understand the point of legal aid in the context of criminal law. The prosecution has a lawyer. If the defense does not have a lawyer, then we have a situation where a lawyer is facing an unrepresented party, which is unfair and brings the administration of justice into question.

Family law does not have that situation. Unlike criminal law, where legal aid is used to level the playing field, in family law legal aid is frequently used to unlevel the field. A matchup that was fair becomes grossly unfair.

Possible matchups:

A) Unrep vs. Unrep
B) Unrep vs. Paid lawyer
C) Legal Aid vs. Unrep
D) Legal Aid vs. Paid lawyer

and of course, my suggestion

E) Legal Aid vs. Legal Aid


A - not ideal, but fair
B - unfair
C - unfair
D - fair
E - fair

My suggestion is just to turn the C's into E's. Maybe that could be the niche filled by paralegals. Can't afford a lawyer? A paralegal will be appointed to you.

I am also suggesting turning the B's into D's or E's, at the choice of the person who previously had a lawyer. Your ex qualifies for legal aid? You now have a choice, accept the legal aid certificate (and don't let the lawyer charge "top up" fees), or continue paying full freight for your lawyer. Some people may choose to continue paying for a lawyer. Those who cannot really afford a lawyer will take the cheaper paralegal/legal aid lawyer.

End result: fair(er) trials.

Bonus result: Legal aid becomes a little more careful about who they support, since it has to be a case with reasonable triable issues. Maybe next time a parent with a vendetta walks through the door legal aid doesn't just blindly fund them.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-14-2019, 05:03 PM
Kinso Kinso is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 91
Kinso is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I like the idea of legal aid being given to both sides as a form of balance. The notion that because someone does not qualify for LAO means they can afford a lawyer is ridiculous.

I'm not a fan of paralegals being permitted to represent clients. The quality of the professionals are just not there. I'd feel more confident being represented by some members of this board then a paralegal.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-14-2019, 05:24 PM
standing on the sidelines standing on the sidelines is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kitchener Ontario
Posts: 5,490
standing on the sidelines is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
I like the idea of legal aid being given to both sides as a form of balance. The notion that because someone does not qualify for LAO means they can afford a lawyer is ridiculous.

I'm not a fan of paralegals being permitted to represent clients. The quality of the professionals are just not there. I'd feel more confident being represented by some members of this board then a paralegal.
that is why I think the threshold for qualifying for legal aid should be changed. Some people are just so close to the cut off point that in reality it would be a hardship for them to have legal counsel.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:19 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 560
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
I understand the point of legal aid in the context of criminal law. The prosecution has a lawyer. If the defense does not have a lawyer, then we have a situation where a lawyer is facing an unrepresented party, which is unfair and brings the administration of justice into question.



Family law does not have that situation. Unlike criminal law, where legal aid is used to level the playing field, in family law legal aid is frequently used to unlevel the field. A matchup that was fair becomes grossly unfair.



Possible matchups:



A) Unrep vs. Unrep

B) Unrep vs. Paid lawyer

C) Legal Aid vs. Unrep

D) Legal Aid vs. Paid lawyer



and of course, my suggestion



E) Legal Aid vs. Legal Aid





A - not ideal, but fair

B - unfair

C - unfair

D - fair

E - fair



My suggestion is just to turn the C's into E's. Maybe that could be the niche filled by paralegals. Can't afford a lawyer? A paralegal will be appointed to you.



I am also suggesting turning the B's into D's or E's, at the choice of the person who previously had a lawyer. Your ex qualifies for legal aid? You now have a choice, accept the legal aid certificate (and don't let the lawyer charge "top up" fees), or continue paying full freight for your lawyer. Some people may choose to continue paying for a lawyer. Those who cannot really afford a lawyer will take the cheaper paralegal/legal aid lawyer.



End result: fair(er) trials.



Bonus result: Legal aid becomes a little more careful about who they support, since it has to be a case with reasonable triable issues. Maybe next time a parent with a vendetta walks through the door legal aid doesn't just blindly fund them.


You know. You might be on to something here. Maybe family law lawyers are ALL legal aid. Maybe they’re like doctors. Arguably you’re going to get lesser calibre lawyers wanting to do family law. But meh- even playing field at least. And the costs are sliding scale based on your income- like taxes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:30 PM
tilt tilt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 157
tilt is on a distinguished road
Default

Yeah, many Paralegals don’t have the necessary professionalism needed for family law. Really, the professionals most needed in family law are social workers. Their is already so much in the law that is codified (table support, equalization, presumption of parenting time by both parents etc) that problems requiring court applications really only crop up because of miscommunication/ poor communication/ grudges (which may have been avoided by proactively using a social worker to navigate co-parenting) or else because one side is *extremely* unreasonable - often times due to untreated high-functioning mental illness.

The conflict needs to be dialed down (whereas court ramps it up), and paralegals do not get mandatory training in colloborative law or high conflict personalities (who won’t respect a paralegal any more than they respect a Judge’s Orders)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:31 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,428
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

I still believe that the bigger problem is the lack of judicial orders. You didn’t come to the conference with your financials? $1000 fine. You withheld access? $1000 fine. You can’t reach an agreement after two conferences? Summary judgement.

I say this in the face of what my husband has seen. The two parties AGREED on how things would go and how things would be calculated. The LAW is also clear on this. There is no need for the multiple conferences and additional motions. There should have been a “referee” at the courthouse that looked at this and said this is how it should be.

Same for so many other cases on here. Not paying the cs ordered and in line with the agreement/law? $1000 fine. Continuing to fail to file taxes and produce documents? $1000 fine.

I firmly believe if there was a serious punishment for this shit there would not be so many delays. Parents shouldn’t have to wait four months for a conference to see their kids. Or ten years for child support to be figured out. The system is seriously broken from the top down. If judges are supposed to have so much “power” then why the eff aren’t they wielding it?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:32 PM
tilt tilt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 157
tilt is on a distinguished road
Default

I love the idea of eliminating private practice from Family law. There are VERY good lawyers out there, but there are a lot that see what the financials are at the beginnging of a case and figure what the max billable they can get and refuse settlement till they get close to their max, even when the other side is being completely reasonable in their offers to settle.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:51 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 73
Helpmyspouse is on a distinguished road
Default

Tilt, you are so spot on. And, there is zero accountability for those lawyers exploiting their clients for financial gain. And, if you are divorcing a mentally ill spouse, I mean diagnosed mentally ill, there should be help for the sane spouse to keep things moving. Currently, a mentally ill spouse is allowed to "drive the train". Mine was able to stall for many years because he just kept hiring and firing lawyers, making unreasonable and outrageous demands. This coupled with money hungry lawyers has left me holding the bag and dealing with lots of anxiety.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-14-2019, 08:30 PM
arabian's Avatar
arabian arabian is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 10,650
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tilt View Post
I love the idea of eliminating private practice from Family law. There are VERY good lawyers out there, but there are a lot that see what the financials are at the beginnging of a case and figure what the max billable they can get and refuse settlement till they get close to their max, even when the other side is being completely reasonable in their offers to settle.
Actually it was my lawyer who pointed out to me that lawyers often talk (off the record of course) about 'how much is in the file' between themselves to predetermine how long/how much they can reasonably expect to make off of the case. (I was fortunate to have found this lawyer).

I think one problem is when people retain lawyers they don't ask enough questions.

Also it is not hard to tell (by scope of questions on this forum) how incredibly lazy people are. People who want to expedite things and keep their legal expenses in check are those who do a certain amount of basic research. If someone is lazy then the lawyers will certainly make more money.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
press release: Ontario's Family Responsibility office Peggy Parenting Issues 8 10-22-2010 10:20 AM
Ontario Justice Bruce Pugsley's recent comments in family court logicalvelocity Political Issues 7 09-22-2010 05:10 PM
Mother frustrated with family court Grover Divorce & Family Law 14 11-09-2009 12:30 PM
Infant Access and Breastfeeding quake Parenting Issues 31 02-01-2006 05:35 PM
Ontario law must apply in Family Arbitrations lammie Divorce & Family Law 0 11-20-2005 09:29 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:22 AM.