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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

View Poll Results: Allow OCL Clinician (not lawyer) to talk to 4 year old child alone?
Yes 5 71.43%
No 2 28.57%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 05-30-2019, 04:44 PM
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Janus Janus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
To be fair- that is basically the entire premise of trials in family law. Let's all find "professionals" who will back up our side of the story.
Sure, but this is a case of saying "the professionals all disagree with me, I want some new ones. There is no competing opinion here, beyond Sasha's of course.

Quote:
Is it not normally the case that parents give each other their regular home address where they spend time with the kid(s)?
I feel like hiding or withholding your address would be a huge red flag to wave to show the two parties cannot get along.
Well, the parties are calling CAS on each other. I think we can safely assume that they are not getting along. Sasha sounds rather aggressive so I can easily think of a situation where I would not want her to know my home address. She already seems like somebody who leaves the forum once they don't get the applause and support they were seeking .

That said, if I was the dad, I would still give my home address because I agree that it does look bad. I would definitely not be giving out any other information though. Maybe I stay with my parents sometimes, maybe I don't. It is none of her business.
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:27 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
... She already seems like somebody who leaves the forum once they don't get the applause and support they were seeking .
You know- when fathers come to this site and make a post about the OCL being biased or unfair in their matter, there are a lot of posters that RUN into the thread yelling about WorkingDad- something similar to...

"Go look at WorkingDad's posts. He DESTROYED the OCL!...OCL SUCKS!"


I'm not necessarily defending the OPs position, I'm just saying....
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:30 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
You know- when fathers come to this site and make a post about the OCL being biased or unfair in their matter, there are a lot of posters that RUN into the thread yelling about WorkingDad- something similar to...

"Go look at WorkingDad's posts. He DESTROYED the OCL!...OCL SUCKS!"


I'm not necessarily defending the OPs position, I'm just saying....


Yes but workingdads case is not at all similar to this. Apples and oranges. In this case the mom is trying to find an ocl and cas person who refuse to allow her ex to have the kid. In workingdads case their opinions were completely biased by a woman like op.
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:38 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Yes but workingdads case is not at all similar to this. Apples and oranges. In this case the mom is trying to find an ocl and cas person who refuse to allow her ex to have the kid. In workingdads case their opinions were completely biased by a woman like op.
No, I'm not totally familiar iwth his matter....but what I was referring to is how people responded to the OP- v. how they respond to dads who have an issue with the OCL.

To be fair to the OP- not many of us asked her what exactly her issues were....sure she comes off a little bit like chicken little mixed with norma bates, but she hasn't given us the history or really much detail.

but she could also be someone who doesn't understand how the OCL works, and who wasn't given any coaching in dealing with them.
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2019, 12:09 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Some of us have been around long enough to see through the bs. This one smells.

I understand your point but we also call a lot of dads on their “I want the kids to reduce cs” complaints about OCL. For the ones many do help with OCL, normally there is a serious issue where dad was being discriminated against by a bias.
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  #16  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:22 AM
SashaQ SashaQ is offline
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I just came to update you guys who gave me all this wonderful advice and suggestions. I apologize for any offense I may have caused unintentionally (or intentionally. lol!) I am going through so much and it can get very overwhelming for me periodically.

The thing is, that not ALL OCL clinicians and CAS workers are good. And their pay (or lack thereof) speaks even more strongly on this point.

Case and point being that during a recent court date (a couple of weeks ago), there happened to be a parent who was sexually abusing a seven year old girl. The other parent was aware of it, and had CAS involved. The CAS and that person's lawyer kept insisting on allowing the child spend time with father because that's what the court order states. CAS was reluctant to 'get involved' with a court order already in place (What!?) The parent had doctor's reports from Sick Kids proving that the child's labia and related parts have stressors consistent with sexual abuse/rape. The CAS STILL was reluctant to provide 'supervised visits', or any useful assistance for that matter.

The other parent, out of frustration stopped sending their child to the other parent, and filed for a motion. Being unrepresented, they had lots of hurdles (like me) to try and navigate the court protocols. So, while this was in motion, this parent stopped the access with the other parent. This put them in 'contempt' of the access court order.

Eventually, the parent did complain about their troubles with their CAS worker, and ended up with a different worker, who, while not being able to assist with supervised visitations, was available to come to court and confirm the sexual abuse reports.

Had they got a good CAS worker to begin with, their child would not have suffered more rape/abuse for the next several months!

Not only does this tell me that they are not all good, but I also have personal experience because the other party has called CAS on me off and on. And as a result, I have met with different workers. The one I had this time was too much concerned with closing the file for the OCL to continue, and did not address ANY of my concerns. The previous one addressed concerns that were not even this serious in nature as my current concern. And, that time the child was not able to speak up properly. Just the fact that the other CAS person mentioned it to the other party put them on notice that certain behaviours will not be tolerated.

As for my son not being taken seriously, well I already proved it when this particular CAS decided to immediately close the file as soon as they got some pressure from the OCL to do so. And, the OCL pressured me just the same to 'hurry up' because they've got other important files/work to deal with.

My son speaks multiple languages. When he refers to dad, daddy, etc. can sometimes be referred to my dad vs his dad whom he will call papa. Or calling one grandma as 'nana' and the other as grandma. I allowed the OCL to speak to my son and clarified this bit with her when she made mention of talking to him. Fortunately when I walked by at one time, I overheard her STILL using the wrong names. I interrupted and apologized for the interruption and clarified again. She goes, "oh really? Oh I didn't know". And I am thinking to myself that I literally just told you this RIGHT BEFORE you walked in with my son in to his room and you acknowledged my comment! Like seriously!?

On another note, as far as the address is concerned of the other party, I heard from several lawyers, and other persons like you guys who have stated that the law does not require for them to give it to me. But I took a chance with the Judge and he did not ask me even ONE question, or say anything to me. He immediately asked the other party for what it is and went a step further and put it in a court order that this is what the party has shared as their address. Moral of this tidbit is that ask the Judge and hope for the best. And this isn't my first time asking a Judge for something I have otherwise been told is 'not law' or 'not required' by other party, but have received nonetheless from the Judge.

The type of advice what I was looking for essentially, I was able to receive through community legal clinic which I was not sure if I will have assistance from in time. So that's why I posted the question here. And, the advise they gave to me was NON-JUDGMENTAL and straight to the point like: "Tell the OCL that you respect their process and just would like more information on the reasoning behind speaking to a child so young who really cannot make decisions for themselves at that age. And let them know that the child has gone through so much already and if you can sit in to start with and then leave after the child feels more comfortable being alone with a stranger. And basically gauge the meeting and see if you can leave for a few minutes and let them know you will be back in a little bit. Keep them informed of what you are doing and why."

I actually did not sit in with them at all.

And the OCL did state that she wants to talk to the child for THIRTY MINUTES to get the child's wishes on where he wants to live. (He's four!) And what are his likes/dislikes. And if he is really as I have described him to the clinician in our initial meeting.

My son was talking to her for maybe 10 mins max and then he came out himself. That was the end of the meeting. And that was another point of lack of trust for me that the Clinician truly believed that she will be able to speak to a 4 year old for THIRTY MINUTES.

If you got to the end, thank you very much.
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  #17  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:26 AM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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So after all of this what came out of it? Do you get a new worker? Or are you just saying that not all workers are great?


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  #18  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:09 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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^ same question as Berner_Faith...what was the point of that long-winded reply?
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:38 PM
tunnelight tunnelight is offline
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The OCL is clearly not on your side. Best get on their good side.

I was never a big fan of my OCL lady either, but best cooperate and present the best you can. I would let child speak to social workers. In my case, the childs comments to the assessor were golden for me. If my memory sharp: "when I was in my mommy's tummy, my dad used to..."

You want to come off as the parent that's looking to resolve the conflicts and move on - not the parent that like to stir the pot.

Once you get the final report, if there is anything you disagree with, you will get a chance to file a dispute with the courts and cross examine the assessor at a trial.

The assessor just makes recommendations. The courts make a final decision.

Here's best strategy for dealing with the assessor:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LgPZKGFZmCc

Last edited by tunnelight; 06-12-2019 at 10:44 PM.
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