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  • OCL Clinician

    Do OCL social workers all work for OCL, or are they outsourced?

    Just asking out of curiosity.

  • #2
    Nope, many have their own practice and are contracted.


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    • #3
      Correct. OCL is a waste of time and only adds complexity and nonsense to any file they touch.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tayken View Post
        Correct. OCL is a waste of time and only adds complexity and nonsense to any file they touch.
        Yes Tayken, take every opportunity you have to bash on the OCL because of the one clown social worker who almost screwed over workingdad.

        Jokes aside, Though their recommendations made absolutely no sense and we're basically biased in favour of the mom in my case, there was really cruicial findings in their report that I was able to use to my advatnage to win my case.

        So, OCL reports can be good and helpful but in my case, far from ideal. It's like buying a 2018 Kia thinking you're buying a 2018 BMW. It comes with some good stuff but pretty crappy over all and far from what you were expecting.

        I desperately needed the assistance of the OCL Because of the alienation. They solidly found mom family and the unilaterally chosen daycare provider disparaging me to the child. They also confirmed I was not bad mouthing mom to the child. This stuff was gold for me. Their recommendations that mom should continue to to have custody and me access every other weekend was diarrhea.

        I'm not sure for what you need it for in your case? Which parent is requesting it?

        I would strongly recommend private assessments by highly competent social workers over POS OCL contracted social workers. All day, any day. Private assessments are very thorough.

        Tayken is correct in stating they add complexity and nonsense. Took me a year and half to navigate through the complexities and non sense, and secure joint custody and 50.50 access - as a mechanism to counter act the influence of mom and family, and preserve my relationship with the child. Very simple solution. Too simple for the OCL to comprehend.

        When it comes to OCL, it's in my opinion quantity over quality. You could have your car looked over and fixed by the highly reputable mechanic in town, or you could take it to Canadian tire.
        Last edited by tunnelight; 01-06-2019, 03:42 PM.

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        • #5
          Do OCL social workers all work for OCL, or are they outsourced?
          Generally, every OCL social worker and lawyer who appears in family court are all private practitioners. The OCL hires them on their panel to complete work for their files. The OCL only has about 55 lawyers within their core employment.

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          • #6
            Why do OCL's appointed to Family Law cases? I get the theory behind it but I don't get how it could be effective. Not sure a lawyer's skill set is what is need for a child in a custody situation. Law school does not prepare one for that.
            Maybe in Ontario that too will be cut by Ford as the Child Youth Advocate's Office was.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
              Yes Tayken, take every opportunity you have to bash on the OCL because of the one clown social worker who almost screwed over workingdad.

              Jokes aside, Though their recommendations made absolutely no sense and we're basically biased in favour of the mom in my case, there was really cruicial findings in their report that I was able to use to my advatnage to win my case.

              So, OCL reports can be good and helpful but in my case, far from ideal. It's like buying a 2018 Kia thinking you're buying a 2018 BMW. It comes with some good stuff but pretty crappy over all and far from what you were expecting.

              I desperately needed the assistance of the OCL Because of the alienation. They solidly found mom family and the unilaterally chosen daycare provider disparaging me to the child. They also confirmed I was not bad mouthing mom to the child. This stuff was gold for me. Their recommendations that mom should continue to to have custody and me access every other weekend was diarrhea.

              I'm not sure for what you need it for in your case? Which parent is requesting it?

              I would strongly recommend private assessments by highly competent social workers over POS OCL contracted social workers. All day, any day. Private assessments are very thorough.

              Tayken is correct in stating they add complexity and nonsense. Took me a year and half to navigate through the complexities and non sense, and secure joint custody and 50.50 access - as a mechanism to counter act the influence of mom and family, and preserve my relationship with the child. Very simple solution. Too simple for the OCL to comprehend.

              When it comes to OCL, it's in my opinion quantity over quality. You could have your car looked over and fixed by the highly reputable mechanic in town, or you could take it to Canadian tire.


              Just a few questions... I am assuming you completely cooperated with OCL? Of course you would. My ex requested them. I delectably agreed as I wasn’t properly informed at the time. My ex has stalled. This has been going on since mid August and ocl still isn’t even half complete. All become first ex cited conflict of interest.. then wait for new ocl. Then he stalled making his meeting with her for over a month. Then he took three weeks to sign consents. Now we are at SC time and praying his lawyer agrees to adjourn again. Shouldn’t these actions speak volumes to the ocl? Or does it not matter.
              How long did your evaluation take?


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              • #8
                Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                Nope, many have their own practice and are contracted.


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                There is no trace of my ocl worker anywhere. Can’t find a private practice by her or anything. The first ocl lady was great. Sadly if you googled her name it came up as her working at a children’s hospital. Which in turn my ex found as well and used it as an excuse to cite conflict of interest. ;-(.


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                • #9
                  Tunnelight: I'm not sure we need it either. Our biggest issues are Custody, he wants Joint I now want Sole after being on my own for 2 years. Access is a huge issue, I want ex to have them Friday till Monday EOW (school/daycare pick ups only), 1 night mid week and split holidays or in lieu of time, respite funds. He wants 2 nights a month which is split weekends, Saturday from 6:00pm till Sunday 6:00 pm and 4 dinners a month. No holidays except a split Christmas Day. And Section 7 (but I figure OCL cant help me there). I did give up on my hope for 50/50.

                  There is no advantage for my ex to settle, right now he has his defacto joint custody and more access (6 days a month) that he wants. And until he gets a court order to pay his arrears, he wont do it. I do understand that many single parents are happy to have full custody, but I struggle as a single parent to meet their needs. Super Mom I am NOT!

                  I'm use to working with social workers, if the OCL have any solutions/recommendations I'm all ears. A private assessment is out of my financial means. I'm currently working with an agency through Youth & Family Services, and they think OCL is a great idea to move this through the court system. Once custody & access is decided we can then focus on getting the resources we need.

                  I am happy to hear they worked out for you Tunnelight and appreciate your insight. I often read on her how bias they are towards Dads.

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                  • #10
                    Why do OCL's appointed to Family Law cases? I get the theory behind it but I don't get how it could be effective. Not sure a lawyer's skill set is what is need for a child in a custody situation. Law school does not prepare one for that.
                    There are two reasons for this.

                    First, with older children, the role of the OCL is to advocate for that child's preferences. Essentially, they are a client like any other. This is akin to the role the OCL plays in estate/guardianship matters.

                    Second, with younger children, the OCL often (or usually) has a clinical assist. In that case, the social worker will take the lead in determining the child's position (either from instructions or recommendations).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                      There are two reasons for this.

                      First, with older children, the role of the OCL is to advocate for that child's preferences. Essentially, they are a client like any other. This is akin to the role the OCL plays in estate/guardianship matters.

                      Second, with younger children, the OCL often (or usually) has a clinical assist. In that case, the social worker will take the lead in determining the child's position (either from instructions or recommendations).

                      Do they always appoint a lawyer advocate where the investigation is done by a clinician? We have a clinician/social worker assigned to our case, but not a lawyer...I'm just curious as to whether there's always a lawyer assigned.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                        Yes Tayken, take every opportunity you have to bash on the OCL because of the one clown social worker who almost screwed over workingdad.
                        Actually, my review on caselaw is quite deeper than that if you take the time to read my main threads. It also is drawn from experience helping a number of files that the OCL and Section 30 assessors have been involved with. My opinion is based on thousands of hours reviewing cases and case law.

                        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                        Jokes aside, Though their recommendations made absolutely no sense and we're basically biased in favour of the mom in my case, there was really cruicial findings in their report that I was able to use to my advatnage to win my case.
                        Which a skilled barrister would have easily extracted on examination of the other parent.

                        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                        So, OCL reports can be good and helpful but in my case, far from ideal. It's like buying a 2018 Kia thinking you're buying a 2018 BMW. It comes with some good stuff but pretty crappy over all and far from what you were expecting.
                        It is more like buying a 1988 Olds. Rusty and worthless.

                        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                        I would strongly recommend private assessments by highly competent social workers over POS OCL contracted social workers. All day, any day. Private assessments are very thorough.
                        Actually, they are mostly boilerplate with the content of an OCL report peppered in. I suggest you pick one of the top Toronto Section 30 people and compare their recommendations between cases. They are boilerplate. So much that I have been able to assemble their standard template out of CanLII. It makes for a great template for filling out Form 35.1 or making offers to settle.

                        There is no Section 30 assessor I would recommend in southern Ontario.

                        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                        Tayken is correct in stating they add complexity and nonsense. Took me a year and a half to navigate through the complexities and non-sense, and secure joint custody and 50.50 access - as a mechanism to counteract the influence of mom and family, and preserve my relationship with the child. Very simple solution. Too simple for the OCL to comprehend.
                        As stated they just add complexity. I suspect if you had a top-shelf barrister you could have achieved the same in less time.

                        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                        When it comes to OCL, it's in my opinion quantity over quality. You could have your car looked over and fixed by the highly reputable mechanic in town, or you could take it to Canadian tire.
                        OCL has taken too much of the court's time. The process doesn't help and hinders settlement. They result in wars of words that are not necessary. Ultimately they have a negative impact on the process.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                          Do they always appoint a lawyer advocate where the investigation is done by a clinician? We have a clinician/social worker assigned to our case, but not a lawyer...I'm just curious as to whether there's always a lawyer assigned.
                          It is age-dependent I find. If the child is >14 years there is usually a lawyer involved to represent them.

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                          • #14
                            Do they always appoint a lawyer advocate where the investigation is done by a clinician? We have a clinician/social worker assigned to our case, but not a lawyer...I'm just curious as to whether there's always a lawyer assigned.
                            No, usually you only get one or the other. Which you get will depend on the issues and age of the child. Younger or special needs lean towards social worker, older lean towards lawyer.

                            If you have a social worker then they will be prepped for trial by a lawyer for the OCL however at trial itself they will simply be a witness to be cross-examined by both parties like any other witness.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              Actually, my review on caselaw is quite deeper than that if you take the time to read my main threads. It also is drawn from experience helping a number of files that the OCL and Section 30 assessors have been involved with. My opinion is based on thousands of hours reviewing cases and case law.
                              I know. I was just joking with you.

                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              It is more like buying a 1988 Olds. Rusty and worthless.
                              LOL. Mine fired up and ran like a dream though.. for 20 minutes. Then it blew a head gasket and started burning oil and shooting out black smoke everywhere

                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              There is no Section 30 assessor I would recommend in southern Ontario.
                              Actually there is a very good one I know you would recommend. She happened to be retained by me to critique.


                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              As stated they just add complexity. I suspect if you had a top-shelf barrister you could have achieved the same in less time.
                              I over exadorated and incorrectly calculated the total time. I included the time it took to involve the OCL, go through all of the interviews, to Chase them down for their report, and adjournments due to counsel unavailability to sign off on the final consent order.

                              The time from the report and "agreement" to do 50.50 and joint custody was about 7 months. This was also somewhat due to court delays , mediation, and counsel availability. Court dates in my jurisdiction are generally 2+ months apart .

                              I am thankful of my lawyer each and every single day of my life and would never speak bad of him. He's given me and the childs life back. He's a hero who has in a way saved my life! And subsequently, the child's life! I said to him a handshake wasn't good enough when the order was signed off by the judge and thanked him and said to him I'm giving him a hug. Wasn't even awkward considering I never really hug other men unless it's family I haven't seen for a while. He's been a great lawyer and a really good friend, throughout.

                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              OCL has taken too much of the court's time. The process doesn't help and hinders settlement. They result in wars of words that are not necessary. Ultimately they have a negative impact on the process.
                              It depends. It sort of worked out in my favour in my case. I just think OCL has a lot of room for improvement.

                              I certainly followed up with the OCL social worker after the final order, thanking them for their assistance with my situation and sharing the final outcome with them. It felt like the right thing to do. Hopefully they won't make the same smelly recommendations in their future work.
                              Last edited by tunnelight; 01-07-2019, 10:20 PM.

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