The high road gets bumpy

[LovingFather32]

Hmmm... are we talking about the 'low' road 'high' road garbledy goop? If so, stay on the high road LF.

This is the rub: do you give credence to the OCL or not?

Can you pick and choose from the meeting what you choose to believe?

IMO get a child psychologist.

Child psychologist. I agree.

Man .. we're up late tonight

[odinn]

Child psychologist. I agree.

Man .. we're up late tonight

Yeah, . Time to pack it in. Take care.

[LovingFather32]

Yeah, . Time to pack it in. Take care.

Time to dream about seeing my little one again. Take care .

[LovingFather32]

Always nice to keep the game rules in mind.
Family Law Rules
PRIMARY OBJECTIVE
(2) The primary objective of these rules is to enable the court to deal with cases justly. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (2).
DEALING WITH CASES JUSTLY
(3) Dealing with a case justly includes,
(a) ensuring that the procedure is fair to all parties;
(b) saving expense and time;
(c) dealing with the case in ways that are appropriate to its importance and complexity; and
(d) giving appropriate court resources to the case while taking account of the need to give resources to other cases. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (3).
DUTY TO PROMOTE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE
(4) The court is required to apply these rules to promote the primary objective, and parties and their lawyers are required to help the court to promote the primary objective. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (4).
DUTY TO MANAGE CASES
(5) The court shall promote the primary objective by active management of cases, which includes,
(a) at an early stage, identifying the issues, and separating and disposing of those that do not need full investigation and trial;
(b) encouraging and facilitating use of alternatives to the court process;
(c) helping the parties to settle all or part of the case;
(d) setting timetables or otherwise controlling the progress of the case;
(e) considering whether the likely benefits of taking a step justify the cost;
(f) dealing with as many aspects of the case as possible on the same occasion; and


The above stuff does come up at Trials

This is a simple matter there is no reason it couldn't be resolved by parties co-operating.

That's how you have to approach this LF32. Making your position open, accommodating, honest and simple.

Goldilocks, OCL and LAO scumbag lawyer...thrive in making everything complicated, stonewalling, lying, and closed mouthed

There POSITION is contrary to the PRIMARY OBJECTIVES

There's nothing in the OCL report for a judge to work with.

And only a Family Court Judge can determine if a OCL shrink Report has any merit.

You have to wait till Final Report comes out, to start moving against it.

1) This mysterious DV counsellor that went on maternity leave...OCL glossed over, meaning report has a flaw.

2) I think this Report is all about the OCL sick allegation. That she won't let go even with CAS telling her she got it wrong.

3) OCL was bombarded by spy recordings and for sure already Judged you before meeting you. AND you don't even know what the recordings were about! and she's accusing you/ questioning you on them...WOW

4) OCL actually looking for items to confirm Goldilocks accusations and enter into her interim report while in your house when she's supposed to be doing a interview with you.

How does a OCL clinician get away with that? LF32 may as well left the house and gave the house keys to the OCL detective.

The entire matter HINGES on the audio recording(s)...I assume audio because never read anywhere here OCL or LAO scumbag lawyer SAW anything it's all I heard. Geese why bother with a transcript...you have to hear couples arguing.

OP's entire position(s) go in the toilet if a Judge decides spy stuff is inadmissible.

One reason a Judge would rule toilet....Primary Objective......it's costly...time consuming...doesn't really prove anything both parties have already agreed to arguing drinking doping. Both argued in front of child.

OP should be backing away from using the recording before this reaches Trial...because Goldilocks was definitely acting. Definitely recording while she was planning to take off...and there's another side to the recording(s) when LF32 hears them all...and see's the date(s)

Since the recordings are now all over town...It's doubtful LAO scumbag lawyer will sit on them much longer.

It's also doubtful any Judge the LAO scumbag lawyer meets along the way to Trial will want to hear or read DAYS of B.S that mean little.....to save a Trial Judge ..DAYS of sitting over the LAO scumbag lawyer...jumping up and down saying ...DID YOU HEAR THAT JUDGE!!!!!!......ZZZZZZ snore.

I just wanted to keep the above post fresh. Because it's just that good. It makes sense.

[Beachnana]

To be honest with you. i am a little lost with this post. Way too much to read. So what is the bottom line at this point?

OCL report a disaster. Not surprised everyone said they are hopeless.
CAS had a positive outcome.
You have a lawyer who working on your case. Let her do her work. She knows you have limited funds, so likely will only contact you when she needs to. I know you feel the need to,have constant updates,but that will cost $$$$ if every time she makes a move she informs you. She knows what you want so let her do her job. Remember your not her only case.. If you cannot because you need 100% control then maybe you should self rep again.
What is the next step? Are you waiting for a court date or just waiting for their next move?

[LovingFather32]

To be honest with you. i am a little lost with this post. Way too much to read. So what is the bottom line at this point?

OCL report a disaster. Not surprised everyone said they are hopeless.
CAS had a positive outcome.
You have a lawyer who working on your case. Let her do her work. She knows you have limited funds, so likely will only contact you when she needs to. I know you feel the need to,have constant updates,but that will cost $$$$ if every time she makes a move she informs you. She knows what you want so let her do her job. Remember your not her only case.. If you cannot because you need 100% control then maybe you should self rep again.
What is the next step? Are you waiting for a court date or just waiting for their next move?

Hey Beachnanna. Welcome back.

OCL report supposed date (Oct 9th)

Motion date: Oct 23rd:

Purpose of Mr. T's post ... constant reminder that OP isn't following primary objectives of family law.

I dont need 100% complete control (see that's what I didn't want my lawyer to think). Just want to be kept in the loop. Is that wrong of me?

[Beachnana]

No not wrong to know what is going on, but maybe its a case of realising that every day you will be thinking about your situation and what is happening but in reality for both your lawyer and your ex's lawyer there are many other cases being dealt with and unless its a major move you will only be incurring legal fees for constant updates. Something you have made clear to your lawyer you cannot afford.

Relax a little and let the person you have decided to advocate for you do her job. She cannot sign anything for you so when she needs a decision made by you she will come to you.

[SadAndTired]

No not wrong to know what is going on, but maybe its a case of realising that every day you will be thinking about your situation and what is happening but in reality for both your lawyer and your ex's lawyer there are many other cases being dealt with and unless its a major move you will only be incurring legal fees for constant updates. Something you have made clear to your lawyer you cannot afford.

Relax a little and let the person you have decided to advocate for you do her job. She cannot sign anything for you so when she needs a decision made by you she will come to you.

LF doesn't even have confirmation that weekly requests for access are being made. I think being copied on any correspondence with ex's lawyer is pretty standard and would keep him up to date without incurring extra costs.

He doesn't need constant updates but if he doesn't receive copies of the requests, he will know they are not being made. And I think that is an important aspect of his case, that he has been asking to see his daughter and despite no concerns from CAS, ex won't cooperate.

Without repeated, regularly timed asking and then denied access, there is no lack of cooperation.

[LovingFather32]

No not wrong to know what is going on, but maybe its a case of realising that every day you will be thinking about your situation and what is happening but in reality for both your lawyer and your ex's lawyer there are many other cases being dealt with and unless its a major move you will only be incurring legal fees for constant updates. Something you have made clear to your lawyer you cannot afford.

Relax a little and let the person you have decided to advocate for you do her job. She cannot sign anything for you so when she needs a decision made by you she will come to you.

Good point Beach.

[Beachnana]

LF doesn't even have confirmation that weekly requests for access are being made. I think being copied on any correspondence with ex's lawyer is pretty standard and would keep him up to date without incurring extra costs.

He doesn't need constant updates but if he doesn't receive copies of the requests, he will know they are not being made. And I think that is an important aspect of his case, that he has been asking to see his daughter and despite no concerns from CAS, ex won't cooperate.

Without repeated, regularly timed asking and then denied access, there is no lack of cooperation.

I inderstand that, but if you trust your chosen lawyer and have requested a weekly request is sent then should you not trust they have done that and if you receive no response, as is likely,the case, do you need to incurr expense having your lawyer confirm she sent the request and confirm bo response was received $$$ incurred each time.

[SadAndTired]

I inderstand that, but if you trust your chosen lawyer and have requested a weekly request is sent then should you not trust they have done that and if you receive no response, as is likely,the case, do you need to incurr expense having your lawyer confirm she sent the request and confirm bo response was received $$$ incurred each time.

Fair enough Beachana.

I was thinking of it more that the lawyer would just copy LF on each correspondence (My lawyer did everything exclusively by email unless it required a signature.) and then if she received a response, she would contact him. Therefore no extra costs.

See your point though.

[MrToronto]

Isn't the "victim" too intimidated and scared to be in the same room with you LF32? Thought that was the reason for the 2-way meetings

But you wrote...OCL wants you to call or contact the "victim" over access.

This is just another item that shows the OCL is all over the map on where to apply the victim card.

Your under the impression the EX is a horrified victim...yet Goldilocks comes right to your house (or did I misread that also...something about rainy day)

anyways just another "conflicting statement" from OCL....or maybe victims can have things anyway they choose. Beats me

[LovingFather32]

Isn't the "victim" too intimidated and scared to be in the same room with you LF32? Thought that was the reason for the 2-way meetings

But you wrote...OCL wants you to call or contact the "victim" over access.

This is just another item that shows the OCL is all over the map on where to apply the victim card.

Your under the impression the EX is a horrified victim...yet Goldilocks comes right to your house (or did I misread that also...something about rainy day)

anyways just another "conflicting statement" from OCL....or maybe victims can have things anyway they choose. Beats me

Not sure if OCL told me to contact ex. OCL takes responsibility for the accusation .. but leaves access up to ex (OCL e-mail to lawyer: ....but I'm not ready to make access recommendations at this time). So she kind of put it in ex's lap.

But they kind of pass the access hot potato back and forth. E-mails from ex's lawyer = "we share OCL's concerns" ; OCL = Its my allegation .. ex has nothing to do with it. You see how its working? OCL doesn't want us to be able to go to court and say "ex denied access" and OCL doesn't want to take all the responsibility for her accusations when it comes to access. They help each other.

YES .. ex actually texted supervisor asking if she could come to meeting spot (right outside my home she stood with the caretaker). I even said "say bye to mommy D3 .. and had her wave bye. Ex waved back. Not scared. When the rain stopped by the end of visit ex again texted supervisor letting her know it would just be easier to come to my home.

Let's not forget the time I forgot to give blankey to supervisor at drop off. Supervisor asked ex if she'd rather her run home and get it or My mother and I bring it to meting spot. Ex said we could bring it No fear.

That's where I told her "we'll get through this .. "I'll always love and respect you as D3's mother" (that's how low conflict I am). Im sure she was equipped with nine recorders but bet those were deleted.

The scared/victim/intimidated thing is actually SHAME. She doesn't want to face my mother or I. She knows what she's done. She knows it's inhumane.

[LovingFather32]

I keep going over this interview OCL had with D3.

Also the article Arabian posted --> Its preferable if OCL records their interviews with the child. A truly biased OCL can just say a child says anything. Then use it.

But OCL was smart too I guess because she put things in like:

1. "Tell mommy and daddy I love them."
2. "I want to spend a full day with daddy" (yea .. she always told me over night)
3. "Mommy doesn't say bad things about daddy and daddy doesn't say bad things about mommy"
4. "Im not scared when Im with daddy".
5. OCL: LF32 an D3 have a warm relationship and she responds to him positively.

So, like Odinn was saying .. it seems bad if I just pick and choose things. OCL knew not to totally massacre me. Still went overboard on the sexual stuff. WAY overboard.

[odinn]

I keep going over this interview OCL had with D3.

Also the article Arabian posted --> Its preferable if OCL records their interviews with the child. A truly biased OCL can just say a child says anything. Then use it.

But OCL was smart too I guess because she put things in like:

1. "Tell mommy and daddy I love them."
2. "I want to spend a full day with daddy" (yea .. she always told me over night)
3. "Mommy doesn't say bad things about daddy and daddy doesn't say bad things about mommy"
4. "Im not scared when Im with daddy".
5. OCL: LF32 an D3 have a warm relationship and she responds to him positively.

So, like Odinn was saying .. it seems bad if I just pick and choose things. OCL knew not to totally massacre me. Still went overboard on the sexual stuff. WAY overboard.

My opinion is that the report is biased or it isn't. I am not sure there is a grey zone here. I don't think you can pick and choose what you would like 'on the record' so to speak.

In this way, if you are claiming the report is prejudice (aka biased) then the assumption is that the person writing the report took a certain view or perspective/maybe had an agenda prior to writing the report. Therefore the whole of the report ought to be set aside - niceties and all.

Perhaps, the niceties strengthen your argument of bias?

It is all or nothing with the report...IMO.