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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 12-03-2010, 01:48 PM
99bobster99 99bobster99 is offline
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Default Court Orders - Support

Can anyone offer any ideas on how to change a Support Payment Court Order easily? My existing agreement does not have any support payment "termination" date listed, the only mention is of the "Divorce Act".

My ex has remarried, she no longer lives with my daughter and my daughter is turning 18 this coming June 2011.

Has anyone gone down a similar road before, I am looking for any pointers you might be able to offer me.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:33 PM
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Where does your daughter currently live? Is she in high school?

Typically support would end when she is no longer considered a "child of the marriage". Usually when one of the following applies:

1. She turns 18
2. She's not in school and is self supporting (aka. working)
3. She gets married
4. She dies

Support can be extended if she's pursuing post secondary school, but if she's not living with your ex, you could make an argument for support to be directed to whomever she is with. (assuming it's not a boyfriend, if she's living with her boyfriend or friends, she's at that "self supporting" thing we talked about it item 2)
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:01 PM
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Sorry to post here but as a brand new member I don't know how to start a new thread. My question relates to increasing a costs order. I was awarded costs after a lenghty trial but the judge only secured 5% of award as enforceable by FRO. The remaing 95% was to be paid over 5 years. He claims he is in the process of filing for bankruptcy which means I will never see any of the unprotected 95% of the money. It is pointless putting a lien on his house as he has no equity. I am going to go to court this week to try to increase the amount of costs that can be enforced by FRO. Any thoughts out there?
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:58 PM
99bobster99 99bobster99 is offline
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Hi NBDad,

Thank you for your reply!

Why does the FRO not see it this way as well? By that I mean, I asked the FRO if the support would end after one of the "child of the marriage" criteria is met. The FRO said "No!", they mentioned that there are only 2 ways to end support payments, they were;

-> i need to fill out a form requesting the support to end. The FRO sends this form to the receipent. If the receipent does not agree, support continues. I asked them, "how long", they replied, "forever, unless a change is made to the existing court order." This is my problem, WTF!

-> this leads me to point #2, the only way to stop support payments is to have the existing court order changed by the courts.

My daughter lives in Cambridge, Ontario, with no intent on continuing with school after high school. She is finishing up her final year of high school, with very poor marks. She would not be able to get accepted in any post secondary school. My ex-wife has remarried and my daughter lives with my ex-wife's parents. Is this not fraud? I am paying support payments to my ex-wife, yet she is not supporting our child? What if she uses the money herself and my daughter never sees a dime? This has been going on now for two years!! Could I not charge her with fraud?

I would like to be prepared for her transition to 18 and know what I need to do regarding the FRO and probably the courts, in order to stop the support payments. I would rather have a one to one arrangement with my daughter, that if she needs assistance I would help her myself.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:44 PM
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You work out the situation with your daughter and agree to pay support to her directly since she is living with grandparents. You get her to put this in writing. You get her to swear an affidavit, or if she is hesitant, you swear the affidavit and attach the agreement in writing to back up the affidavit. Then you use the affidavit to back up your motion to end support.

Please don't complain about why doesn't the FRO see it this way. They do a poor enough job as it is with a very simple mandate and black and white court orders. If you wanted them to start making actual decisions they would fuck things up for 10x as many people.

You pay support due to a court order. You end support with a court order. That is the long and the short of it.
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:19 PM
99bobster99 99bobster99 is offline
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It would be advantageous to find her a job after school and get her to be self reliant. My only concern is her marks, with crappy marks, she won't find work easily. Here lies my concern ... what if, lets say she doesn't find work and takes the "lazy" way out and stays at her grandparents and does not want to work but live off my support instead. How long could this go on? when are you considered an adult and should be able to look after your own affairs? My dad told me that if I didn't have a job in 3 months after school, all my stuff would be on the front lawn and I would be on my own! How is this "lazy" scenario of an over 18, no longer a "child of the marriage" viewed by the courts? How does the court "push" a child to become self sufficient? Would they expect me to keep paying support until she gets married? What if she doesn't get married?
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:10 PM
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I've never seen any emplyer inquire into a potential hire's grades. If she graduates and has her diploma, if that's a requirement for the position she's applying for, that's all they care about. They don't care if she passed her courses with a 52% or 98%, she passed and fulfilled the requirements for graduating.

As for her being too lazy to work and living with the grandparents collecting support from you, that only happens if you let it. File a motion to have the support changed or stopped as she no longer fits the criteria for support. The cour tdoesn't look at her willingness to work, it's not their job to push her to get a job - it's yours. Why would she bother if she knows that she can live off your support? Until there's tension for change ie: she knows she can't get a free ride by collecting from daddy she'll do nothing about it. That's a conversation YOU need to have with her, and potentially the grandparents she's living with if needed, not the courts.
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Old 12-05-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99bobster99 View Post
It would be advantageous to find her a job after school and get her to be self reliant. My only concern is her marks, with crappy marks, she won't find work easily. Here lies my concern ... what if, lets say she doesn't find work and takes the "lazy" way out and stays at her grandparents and does not want to work but live off my support instead. How long could this go on? when are you considered an adult and should be able to look after your own affairs? My dad told me that if I didn't have a job in 3 months after school, all my stuff would be on the front lawn and I would be on my own!
Pick one battle, fight that, win it and then pick the next. From the sounds of things you are ready to fight both your ex and your kid.

You want to end support to your ex, then get your kid onside with it. Offer to pay support directly to her and gently suggest that she go to school and think about a career because you won't be there forever. However if you get aggressive with her about it right now, don't start crying that she won't co-operate with you ending support to your ex.

The support you pay to her won't be court ordered. I am suggesting you make a private arrangement with daughter, get her to admit in writing you are supporting her directly and she is living with grandparents. This has nothing to do with the courts. You then use this as evidence to solve your first problem.

Step two is dealing with your daughter; it's up to you if you turn around and say Ha Ha! I'm cutting support, you little parasite!!! I would suggest a better approach is to pay support for a year-ish, encourage her to register in school, if she has no plans give her fair warning of 3 months notice you are cutting her off if she doesn't start a program.

By this time the new court order is months old, your ex could not restart support automatically even if daughter moves back in, she would need a new court order.

It's up to you how to raise your child and how tough to be but if you want to achieve step one then be prepared to get the daughter onside with you. I'm sure you feel you are experienced in life and successful and mature, you should realize by now you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Quote:
How is this "lazy" scenario of an over 18, no longer a "child of the marriage" viewed by the courts? How does the court "push" a child to become self sufficient? Would they expect me to keep paying support until she gets married? What if she doesn't get married?
I'm not paying taxes so that the courts will raise your daughter for you. The role of the courts is when two parents can't come to a reasonable agreement with each other. If you and your ex can agree on a "tough love' approach and throw her stuff out on the lawn, that's nothing to do with the courts. The daughter can't sue you. But if the two of you can't agree and the mother is willing to take her back in and hit you for support and school costs, then the court will have to decide, and the court won't waste time parenting your child, they will give a simple answer to support the child while she is still in school, which is what the Family Act says. This is not the law telling you how to raise your kids, this is the law making a compromise decision when two adults can't agree. They won't take your side or the mother's side, they will just have you put the kid through school and shut up about it.
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Old 12-05-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkandimgone View Post
I've never seen any emplyer inquire into a potential hire's grades. If she graduates and has her diploma, if that's a requirement for the position she's applying for, that's all they care about. They don't care if she passed her courses with a 52% or 98%, she passed and fulfilled the requirements for graduating..
You do need a GPA to get into post-grad courses, or to use a college diploma to get advanced standing for a university undergrad program. If she has any thoughts of persuing a professional career then her GPA will matter.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:59 PM
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True, but she's not pursuing post-secondary education, this guy's talking about his kid fresh out of high school not getting a decent job because of her high school grades. Hopefully she'll change her mind and go back to school but if she doesn't, she's met the rquirements for her high school diploma at least.
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