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  #1  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:44 PM
nick2009 nick2009 is offline
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Default I am new here

hi, all

first time i come here to introduce myself.

i separated with my wife for 7 years, and i hired a lawyer last summer to apply for divorce in supreme court of ontario (393 university, toronto, 10th floor.). now i am face the utimate case conference which will be on Jan 27, 2010.

However, i stopped the contract with my lawer due to the difficulty of my finance ( no more money). it seems that i know something about case conference and the related documents ( form 14, 17 etc) after reading the family law rules. but the fact is that i do not know what i should do the next.

So, i really need your guys' help. Please give me a very detail what the next step i should do and what i should read to understand more about the legal procedure and paper/document work.

thank you + happy new year to all of you

nick
  #2  
Old 01-05-2010, 04:42 AM
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dadtotheend dadtotheend is offline
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First things first, the court at 393 University is called the Superior Court of Justice.

Your question is so open ended as to invite a very unwiedly response. Have you been to the mandatory information session at the Family Law Information Centre to get an overview of the process?
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:15 AM
nick2009 nick2009 is offline
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Thank you very much, dadtotheend,

i have been to the family information session at the 361 university ave. toronto on aug 24, 2009, which i believe it is "the mandatory information session ". i got a stamped certificate proof of my attendance.

for your better understanding in order to give me proper advice, i would like to have a brief about my story.

1) March of 2009, I was handed with a red book ( the file recording), my wife officially sue me at the Ontario Court of Justice (47 sheppard ave East, toronto) (not the Superior Court of Justice) for spouse support ($1500 per month she claimed) and child support ($367 per month according to the table) She got a legal aid for claiming supports but no divorce, because the legal aid can not be used for divorce case.

2) May 8th of 2009, I attended the first court appearance, i represented myself. however, the duty counsel told me that i should hire a lawyer to handle it and to protect myself. Meanwhile, i was told the next court appearance would be the case conference at the court on August 5th, 2009.

3) July of 2009, I hired a lawyer to represent me for this case. My lawyer told me that it was better to open a new case at the Superior Court of Justice to handle child support, spouse support and divorce. So, i could end the relationship and pains between me and my wife. I agreed to it.

As the Applicant, i want to pay child support accordingly. i want to have right to see my daughter (11years old). there is no property dispute at all. i want to divorce. i want joint custody. the main argument will be the spouse support $1500/month, which is equivolent to my 3 week pure pocket earning, i believe it is baseless.

4) August 5th, 2009, my lawyer attended the case conference at the Ontario Court of Justice and told the judge that we had already opened a new case at the Superior Court of Justice for divorce. The judge then closed the case right away.

5) early of October of 2009, we got the Answer and Financial Statement from the lawyer of the Respondant (my wife)

6) however, my lawyer told me that he tried to get a deal with the Respondant's lawyer, but there was no cooperation from the Respondant's lawyer. And the the Respondant's lawyer want to have the date of the case conference fixed as soon as possible. my lawyer told me that i had to pay another $2000 for the case conference.

7) facing the difficulty, i had already paid $5000 to my lawyer, then another $2000 only for the case conference and who knows what will be the next, how about the settlement conference, etc. I asked my lawyer how much is enough to solve the whole case completely. He could not give me the answer. That is totally beyond my financial capacity. $2000 is my 4 weeks pure pocket earning. i can not afford it any more. Then i had no choice and had to end the contract with my lawyer. my lawyer at the last moment gave me some help for the change of my representation (which is form 4) and another form 6B, meanwhile he told me that i could represent myself because my case is so simple that i can give all my fact and support documents to the judge and let the judge make a decision.

8) now today, I have read the family law rules, i know the deadline of my Financial Statement form 13 (renewed or a simple affidavit proof no change), the case conference brief form 17a and confirmation form 14c.

9) my first problem, i probably need a interpreter (English and Mandrin) because i am not confident with my English understanding skill to properly communicate at the court, especially when facing some legal terms. I do not know and i want to have some basic information about how to find an interpreter, how to inform the court about the interpreter, what the legal procedure should be taken accordingly. my wife got a free interpreter at the OLD case conference. then how I get one for free.

10) my second problem , how to calculate the spouse support in order to know the basic line i could accept.

Now I have to say sorry dadtotheend, i wrote a lot and it may cost you a lot of time.
Any response will be appreciated.

Thank you

xiaojun tang
jan 5, 2010
  #4  
Old 01-06-2010, 12:52 PM
dinkyface dinkyface is offline
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Hello,
Regarding the court interpreter, you might want to post a separate thread with that question, to see if anyone here has experience/suggestions for that. Also, probably you should ask directly at the court.

Regarding the spousal support calculation - from what I've seen here, there isn't really any authoritative calculation you can use that will give you a specific number, there are too many factors, and it seems open to argument. maybe you could make another post to request opinions, describing your situation e.g. length of marriage, impact of marriage and child-raising on both of your careers/salaries, both of your current salaries.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:47 PM
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How long were you and were wife together, including co-habitation prior to marriage?

What's your annual salary?

What is your wife's working history, including income, from before you got together to now?
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:13 PM
nick2009 nick2009 is offline
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to dinkyface,

thank you for your reply.

1) for court interpreter, i am going to find out a proper place to post it. Actually, i yesterday call the court 416 327 2064, however, i could not catch the idea about how to follow the procedure. one reason is that my english is not good enough to understand it. another reason is that a lot of legal terms came out from the other end of line. i really do not understand it.

2)Regarding the spousal support calculation, it seems so many factors get involved in the calculation. Is there any book or legal website or court website telling people about how to calculate it, or telling us the general principal about it.
  #7  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:46 PM
nick2009 nick2009 is offline
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to dadtotheend ,

thank you for your reply,

1)the marriage began on Jan 16, 1996 in Beijing China.

2)we had a baby girl on June 18, 1998 in beijing china

3)i immigrated to Toronto Canada on July 22, 1999.

4)i sponsed my wife and my daughter to Canada, they landed in Toronto on Oct 20, 2000.

5)jan 1, 2003, we separated,

6)then, as i know, she went to Humble College and then went to RYERSON UNIVERSITY, she got her Bechalor Degree in Accounting on May 2008. Till now, she does not have any job.

7) my wife had a job as an accounting in beijing before coming to Canada in Oct. 2000. after joined me in Canada, she did not go to work.

8)my annual salary, $40,368 in the year 2008,

the year 2003, Line 150 total income = 28840
the year 2004, Line 150 total income = 37511
the year 2005, Line 150 total income = 42403
the year 2006, Line 150 total income = 43143
the year 2007, Line 150 total income = 39669
the year 2008, Line 150 total income = 40368

9)my wife does not have job, as i know, according to her Financial Statement. she gets welfare from all sources totally $1100/month, now she is working as a volunteer without any pay in a hospital downtown Toronto.

hope the above may be detailed enough to certain calculation.

again, no matter what, i have to say thank you.

xiaojun tang
jan 6, 2010
  #8  
Old 01-06-2010, 11:47 PM
Mess Mess is offline
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As said there are many factors involved in spousal support. Your wife has to establish that she has first of all an entitlement to support, then it has to be decided how much, and then how long it should be paid.

Your wife is educated and employable with some experience, although not in Canada. She has been out of the workforce for many years. She still has some responsibilitie with your daughter, although at age of 11 your daughter could be considered to not need formal daycare, perhaps just an after school program or if you were able you could take care of her after school etc. Your wife should be considered fully capable of working.

The older method of calculating spousal support is to look at the two person's Net Disposable Income. This would be your income after taxes, after you paid for Child Support, after paying for your child's special expenses (after school care, summer camp, etc) and usually after your basic living expenses (rent, etc).

For your wife it is calculated AFTER she receives Child Support and any government benefits. She also usually would deduct basic expenses like rent.

Then for a simple calculation, her NDI should be brought up to around 45% of yours. This was the figure my lawyer offered me at our first meeting for conversation purposes. Now keep in mind that a judge might use other calculations, but you are asking for a starting point for negotiation purposes, so this is a decent method.

Now, I'm not using a calculator and i don't know all of your expenses but just for conversation, your child support would be somewhere near $300 per month, your NDI currently you say is $2000, her income from all sources is $1100. That is $1400 compared to your $1700 after child support.

Really the spousal support should be $0, but a judge would consider that she has no work experience in Canada. Balance that against the fact she is a recent university graduate and should therefore be capable of applying for jobs. My advice to you, and I am no expert, I am just "some guy on the internet" is that you should offer $100 per month spousal support for a period of 18 months. This would be a very fair offer I think, more than fair and would make you look very reasonable.
  #9  
Old 01-07-2010, 08:02 PM
nick2009 nick2009 is offline
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to Mess,

thank you for your helpful reply.

After reading your reply, i feel much more confident about the issue of spousal support. now basically, i roughly knew my bottom line. so if there are any offer or deal coming out from my wife's lawyer or the judge, i know where my position is.

i am wonding if there are any kind of books or official websites that i can learn from it.

Thank you again for your help

xiaojun tang
jan 7, 10
  #10  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:03 PM
nick2009 nick2009 is offline
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To Mess,
I may need your another help.
We separated since Jan 1, 2003. During this period of time, I gave my wife money (roughly $9000) in a few times. I would like to know how much would be proper for this period of time for spousal support, based on my personal information stated yesterday. What basic principals do I should follow for the calculation of the spousal support from Jan 1, 2003- present.
If I should give her the spousal support, can I get some kind of proof from her, showing that she has been working fulltime at finding a job. As I know, she finish her university in May 2008, then right away she had a trip to China (sightseeing + Beijing Olympic) from early May 2008 to mid of September 2008. I do not think it is fair to pay her spousal support for that.
If I will pay her $1200 each year for spousal support, do I have right to know and get the proof if she is working at finding a job. Does the judge or the court support my point.
Thank you
Xiaojun tang
Jan 7, 2010
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