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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:59 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Originally Posted by gettingexpensive View Post
Mom 2 two: what's the way out since you guys are so far apart? A trial to have the judge agree on these items? they all seem "trivial" but really pile up in the end.

Custody / visitation will be the big one but other than that, I find all of this a big waste of time. Shouldn't all these expense be section 7 (or whatever it is) and he pays a percentage of them based on income? You then claim what you want but honestly if the kids are with you most of the times I wouldn't claim that much since it seems a major hassle to deal with him..

Does he have NPD or some other cluster B personality issues? These people like high conflict and you can't negotiate with them since they feel entitled. Ask me how i know. lol..


So I have asked for 50% Section 7 yes. Even though his income is higher than mine.
But will work with him on some of them with a certain amount as a cap. Keep in mind we have a separation agreement that says this. He is to pay in proportion to his income Lol. He stopped paying what he was supposed to pay because he wants to pay less. With no real reason accept he now has a partner and her three kids living with him whom he says he helps support. I agree. All waste of my money!! He says he never consented to the expenses. Typical. Except agreement lists what he should be paying for. He paid them all for the first three years. Is that not consent enough?? It was all consented to even though the agreement doesnít say consent was needed. 4th year moves gf in and refuses to pay. And itís just hockey and soccer. There was tutoring and therapy for a year. Which was a necessity. He paid. Now he says if itís needed again he wants a cap on it???
Refuses to pay dental bills from the last 4 years. When I didnít have insurance. And for half the portion that was not covered.
Refuses to pay arrears of half life insurance. Again these were all listed in agreement which he signed and agreed to.

All reasonable amounts. Nothing crazy.

I dropped the life insurance fee. Dropped summer care... and dropped soccer. He not asking for half hockey.

Ocl told him in front of our lawyers that she believes he had a neurological issue and he should see a dr. She did say she wouldnít put it in the report. And she didnít. He most definitely had a processing disorder. And the GF... the one running the show most likely has some sort of disorder. The things the children have told me aboutthe way she acts and treats dad is quite worrisome. And they told ocl they are afraid of her. I think dad is in a codependent relationship. And what the gf says goes. End of story. These were all non issues when gf didnít exist.

I agree he should pay according to his income. He does not agree. There are arrears he thinks he owes 0$

I am prepared for a trial. As I wonít subject the kids to more time after what has been validated that is going on at dads home. I did offer him more Time. Enough that the kids wouldnít be hugely affected. If I was to agree to what he wants for access this would only lead to more issues with our children costing more money in therapy and behaviour issues which have already been confirmed by several therapists and school social workers on top of the OCL. I can show you my 35 page report. Itís quite eye opening.

Sure tellme how you know about the disorders. ?? How did you negotiate with someone who has one? Or did you give in? Or go to trial.

I have an agreement that says I have sole custody. Singed 5 years ago. Properly down to through lawyers and filed with court.
There is no material change. And then their is the status quo of what the children have thrived off of. Does this not count for anything. Plus them consistently telling ocl they want it to stay the way it is. ?


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  #12  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:00 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Theres a lot of the backstory that gets lost from mom2twos previous posts and now. Remember that this is a parent who was fine with the way things were going, was paying what was required, was barely seeing the kids and shut his mouth for FIVE YEARS. He found a new partner who has kids and wants to blend the families. He didnít file to change the situation because of that. HE STOPPED PAYING. Mom2two had to file a motion to get him to pay for medical, education and sports that dad had been paying all along. He moved to another city and suddenly started dictating how he wants things. In any other case of a dad wanting change you see someone who has moved down the street, attends all appointments and meetings, pays extra for activities, provides daycare services himself, goes to therapy and all the other parenting classes etc. This man does none of that.

Even when oCL did their in home visit he was barely involved. His gf did all the activities and dad caused issues OCL noted he needed to change. OCL witnessed issues between the kids and the gfs kids and recommended they not be there on the weekends.

This is absolutely a case of dads new partner wanting to change the status quo and dad simply saying no more money if I dont get what I want. He has even bullied her into getting what he wants over the last year when it comes to his parenting time.

The judge ordered OCL because dad said give me the kids. I have a hard time believing they wonít review the report. At this point, youíve offered a reasonable amount of time and funds. You are not asking for thousands for bullshit expenses. These are all necessary for their physical and emotional health.

I saw take a deep breath, see what the judge says tomorrow and then go from there. You will have a better idea once the judge weighs in.
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:13 AM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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My neutral, third party, outsider-looking-in, only hearing your side of the story opinion:

As I said in a previous thread- offer up joint custody. I donít know if you have a full grasp on what are and what arenít joint custody decisions. A lot of your concerns seem to be around s7ís and to be honest, even in a JC situation, primary caregiver basically has final say anyways. Especially if non-primary parent is only doing this as a power move, and backs off within the next year. Which sounds like what your ex may do. If itís something medical and he doesnít show/respond to your email, then just go ahead and make the decision based on doctors/dentist recommendation. Collect expenses based on your ironclad s7/medical/dental order that you will need. Do either of you have benefits?

Besides that, here is what I would put an emphasis on:

-Going off of Ionaís suggestion, week about summer access if he agrees to attend counselling. Offer to go to the same course as well, even if youíve already done some. I WISH my ex wanted week about summer access. Iíve offered it twice, he says no.
-Arrears. This is flexible. Depends if you want to pay for your lawyerís next vacation or not. Make another offer but reduce the amount you want a bit maybe. How much does he actually owe (provable)? How much have you offered?

The rest:

-Pay a friends teenager or a neighbour $10 to get your kids off the bus every other Friday and let their dad pick them up at 4:30. He probably wants to have dinner with them and 6pm is cutting it late when he already lives 40 mins away, and also probably doesnít want to pick them up at your familyís house, because I mean, who wants to deal with their ex-in-laws. If you want to be really petty, collect receipts from said neighbour and collect his portion through your ironclad s7 order.

-Forget the gf and her kids. Very unlikely any judge will rule that her kids canít be in the house when your kids are, and there is no way you will ever be able to control this. Put an emphasis on the counselling for dad in your order so he has the tools to deal with the kids emotions, and learn to accept that these people are going to be around your kids whether you like it or not.

-Your oldest child is 11. They have no say on Access time. Start being positive and encouraging visits with dad.

-S7 expenses: get an order that is very clear on what is covered, proportionate to income. The costs that your ex has offered up so far sound fairly reasonable and on the right track.


To summarize: A lot of the stuff you are arguing about is petty, and a judge isnít going to have the patience to listen to it. From my experience, they will focus on one or two major things that they can try and get a resolution and consent order on. If you put joint custody and week about summer access on the table, under the condition that you both do joint parent counselling and individual parenting classes/therapy, the judge is going to see you as reasonable and level headed. Do not bring up the girl friend/step siblings
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:27 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selfrepmom View Post
My neutral, third party, outsider-looking-in, only hearing your side of the story opinion:



As I said in a previous thread- offer up joint custody. I donít know if you have a full grasp on what are and what arenít joint custody decisions. A lot of your concerns seem to be around s7ís and to be honest, even in a JC situation, primary caregiver basically has final say anyways. Especially if non-primary parent is only doing this as a power move, and backs off within the next year. Which sounds like what your ex may do. If itís something medical and he doesnít show/respond to your email, then just go ahead and make the decision based on doctors/dentist recommendation. Collect expenses based on your ironclad s7/medical/dental order that you will need. Do either of you have benefits?



Besides that, here is what I would put an emphasis on:



-Going off of Ionaís suggestion, week about summer access if he agrees to attend counselling. Offer to go to the same course as well, even if youíve already done some. I WISH my ex wanted week about summer access. Iíve offered it twice, he says no.

-Arrears. This is flexible. Depends if you want to pay for your lawyerís next vacation or not. Make another offer but reduce the amount you want a bit maybe. How much does he actually owe (provable)? How much have you offered?



The rest:



-Pay a friends teenager or a neighbour $10 to get your kids off the bus every other Friday and let their dad pick them up at 4:30. He probably wants to have dinner with them and 6pm is cutting it late when he already lives 40 mins away, and also probably doesnít want to pick them up at your familyís house, because I mean, who wants to deal with their ex-in-laws. If you want to be really petty, collect receipts from said neighbour and collect his portion through your ironclad s7 order.



-Forget the gf and her kids. Very unlikely any judge will rule that her kids canít be in the house when your kids are, and there is no way you will ever be able to control this. Put an emphasis on the counselling for dad in your order so he has the tools to deal with the kids emotions, and learn to accept that these people are going to be around your kids whether you like it or not.



-Your oldest child is 11. They have no say on Access time. Start being positive and encouraging visits with dad.



-S7 expenses: get an order that is very clear on what is covered, proportionate to income. The costs that your ex has offered up so far sound fairly reasonable and on the right track.





To summarize: A lot of the stuff you are arguing about is petty, and a judge isnít going to have the patience to listen to it. From my experience, they will focus on one or two major things that they can try and get a resolution and consent order on. If you put joint custody and week about summer access on the table, under the condition that you both do joint parent counselling and individual parenting classes/therapy, the judge is going to see you as reasonable and level headed. Do not bring up the girl friend/step siblings


Again refer to Rockscan response. Lol

This all sounds great. Itís not my ex. And I wonít subject the kids to any
More emotional neglect than I have to. If a judge orders it then so be it.

Ocl reports boasts how I continually try to get the children to see time with their dad as positive. And even a third party therapist quoted what I had said in a session as to trying to get the kids to see the positive in any of this.

Anyways thanks for the opinion. Itís nice to view all opinions. Not just the ones I like.

I will talk to Lawyer about all the suggestions with counselling and therapy. But I am tapped out. Been doing therapy/ parenting stuff for the last three years to help/advocate for my kids. Itís time dad steps up and does what he needs to do. And as usual he is refusing.


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  #15  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:35 AM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Theres a lot of the backstory that gets lost from mom2twos previous posts and now. Remember that this is a parent who was fine with the way things were going, was paying what was required, was barely seeing the kids and shut his mouth for FIVE YEARS. He found a new partner who has kids and wants to blend the families. He didn’t file to change the situation because of that. HE STOPPED PAYING. Mom2two had to file a motion to get him to pay for medical, education and sports that dad had been paying all along. He moved to another city and suddenly started dictating how he wants things. In any other case of a dad wanting change you see someone who has moved down the street, attends all appointments and meetings, pays extra for activities, provides daycare services himself, goes to therapy and all the other parenting classes etc. This man does none of that.

Even when oCL did their in home visit he was barely involved. His gf did all the activities and dad caused issues OCL noted he needed to change. OCL witnessed issues between the kids and the gfs kids and recommended they not be there on the weekends.

This is absolutely a case of dads new partner wanting to change the status quo and dad simply saying no more money if I dont get what I want. He has even bullied her into getting what he wants over the last year when it comes to his parenting time.

The judge ordered OCL because dad said give me the kids. I have a hard time believing they won’t review the report. At this point, you’ve offered a reasonable amount of time and funds. You are not asking for thousands for bullshit expenses. These are all necessary for their physical and emotional health.

I saw take a deep breath, see what the judge says tomorrow and then go from there. You will have a better idea once the judge weighs in.
Iím so on the fence on this one. I donít think dad is asking for a ton of time though, just EOW with one night a week? I would say let him have the extra time with his kids, with a condition that there is parenting counselling done. If, as the kids get older, they decide they really do hate dad, then so be it. At least the OP can never be accused of interfering in their relationship down the line. Basically, give him rope to hang himself if he wants it.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:40 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
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Thanks rockscan for the backstory. I guess a divorce never ends. I'm sure I'll end up in the same boat in a few years, the ex will want to reopen everything

Really messed up that they want to go back to changing custody / visitation after 5 years when all was good and he definitely doesn't seem stable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
Sure tellme how you know about the disorders. ?? How did you negotiate with someone who has one? Or did you give in? Or go to trial.
I'm currently dealing with someone that has BPD-like and NDP-like behavior (I am not a doctor so cannot provide an official diagnostic... ) and it's a nightmare. Google "BPD divorce" to give you an idea.. they say divorce with a BPD is hell without kids, and even worse with kids. Suicide threats, assaults, jail, emotional abuse to kids, ... There's even a book about it (splitting, by bill eddy)

I used to fear going to court but realized that I had no other choice when I saw that I couldn't negotiate. She was saying that she made lots of compromise in the separation agreement but I don't think that I could find a single one. She wanted to specify where I could live (within <3km from the kids school, until they are done university) because she did not want to live too far from the kids. I realized that you cannot reason with these people and they absolutely want to win. I just hope it won't drag out for years.

I've never seen my kids so relaxed. They sleep well. Eat well. Don't get angry as much. What a change it's been for them. I just hope that the court sees things the same way.
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:42 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selfrepmom View Post
Iím so on the fence on this one. I donít think dad is asking for a ton of time though, just EOW with one night a week? I would say let him have the extra time with his kids, with a condition that there is parenting counselling done. If, as the kids get older, they decide they really do hate dad, then so be it. At least the OP can never be accused of interfering in their relationship down the line. Basically, give him rope to hang himself if he wants it.


I even offered Sunday nights to Monday morning at school. Nope. No bite. Iím not saying no to mid week. Just in weeks he has no access would be best. And then we are stuck trying to find activities that donít coincide with that day now since dad refuses to take them to their activities. Even though OCL said their activities should not suffer because they are with dad. And I do not agree to week on week off in the summer. Several lawyers have told me in no way should gf be used as a babysitter. OCL told dad the same thing. Few hours here and there sure!! Not while he is at work. Specifically because of what Ocl witnessed and heard was going on.

I know itís hard when you are looking in. I get why some of the opinions are what they are. Thanks.


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  #18  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:45 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Originally Posted by gettingexpensive View Post

Really messed up that they want to go back to changing custody / visitation after 5 years when all was good...
It's not the case here- with Mom2Two- but in general, I think it's actually a good thing to have the possibility of changing parenting time (custody and access) as children grow older.

Given your back story- I hope that your wife can get the help she needs- and your parents can have their mom in their life in a way that works for them...

I wish it wasn't through a court process- but I think having the ability to look at custody and access would be a good thing at least every 2-3 years.
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:47 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
I even offered Sunday nights to Monday morning at school. Nope. No bite. Iím not saying no to mid week. Just in weeks he has no access would be best. And then we are stuck trying to find activities that donít coincide with that day now since dad refuses to take them to their activities. Even though OCL said their activities should not suffer because they are with dad. And I do not agree to week on week off in the summer. Several lawyers have told me in no way should gf be used as a babysitter. OCL told dad the same thing. Few hours here and there sure!! Not while he is at work. Specifically because of what Ocl witnessed and heard was going on.

I know itís hard when you are looking in. I get why some of the opinions are what they are. Thanks.


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Yeah- I'm reading this and thinking - "fuck that noise"....it sounds like you're going ot have to gamble with playing chicken to trial.

What's with his lawyer? Why are they not trying to find more common ground?
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  #20  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:54 AM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
I even offered Sunday nights to Monday morning at school. Nope. No bite. Iím not saying no to mid week. Just in weeks he has no access would be best. And then we are stuck trying to find activities that donít coincide with that day now since dad refuses to take them to their activities. Even though OCL said their activities should not suffer because they are with dad. And I do not agree to week on week off in the summer. Several lawyers have told me in no way should gf be used as a babysitter. OCL told dad the same thing. Few hours here and there sure!! Not while he is at work. Specifically because of what Ocl witnessed and heard was going on.

I know itís hard when you are looking in. I get why some of the opinions are what they are. Thanks.


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So what actually started these proceedings?

You had a mutually agreed upon, signed-with-lawyers agreement that was filed with the court 5ish years ago that saw you with sole custody? And then ex stopped paying previously mutually agreed expenses and so you filed to enforce s7/CS expenses? Or you also filed for sole custody at this time?

I just really think in this case you can have your cake and eat a bit of it too. Give up joint in return for an order that he does the counselling. My ex is very similar to yours- never showed to any parent/teacher meetings, doctors appointments, refuses extra time etc. Stopped paying CS the same month he bought the gf her rock. I filed for CS, but Gave him joint custody right off the hop, which made him immediately drop some of his other ludicrous requests (50/50 after 3 years status quo). Guess who didnít bother to show up to the latest dentist appointment? Mr. Newly-Appointed-Joint-Custody-Holder.

Give up joint= get an order for parenting counselling for dad and kids (hello best interest of children!) and save $$$$ (hello again best interests of children!!)
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