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  • #16
    Ending the relationship means automatic 50-50 shared custody with joint legal. That's the law. If that's something you want, push hard for that NOW. If you settle for less, you will have a HUGE and YEARS LONG battle to increase it down the road.

    She is not breastfeeding, so there is NO reason the kid cannot do immediate overnights. Offer some reasonable parenting plan that does 2-2-3 or similar schedule. Then if she refuses, ask for costs.

    Start paying OFFSET CS right away, make sure you document what it is for (ie. USE the memo field). Bank the difference between offset CS and full CS, just in preparation for worse case scenario. That way if you get hit with arrears, you'll have them handy.

    The lawyer cost you indicated is reasonable. An emergency motion will run you 900-2500 depending on the lawyer. Get a loan or otherwise liquidate any assets to build a war chest. You are going to need it if she gets stupid about it.

    Read THE LIST

    Lots of good advice in it. Your ballpark guesstimate on a final cost is going to depend on how amicable or ugly this is. A high conflict case will run you 1-3 years and 10-30K+ at a minimum to get a final order in place. (A decent lawyer should have a temp order for you in a matter of weeks)

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    • #17
      I have spoken to and retained a lawyer today. She will have the application drafted and ready for tomorrow, I will then get it served later that evening, and return the next day to file to forms with the court.

      The lawyer advised me that an emergency motion can be put in place once the initial application has been completed.

      You mentioned start paying offset CS, could you elaborate? Who would I work out that arrangement with? How does that whole process exactly work?

      I'm not sure if it's true or not, but when I did speak with her mother briefly that day- she mentioned that my ex isn't even going after CS. Her concern primary is custody.

      Once again, thanks for the advice everyone. I will keep everyone updated on the situation and I will take a look at that list.

      Comment


      • #18
        It doesn't matter what she is going after. CS is the right of the child. If the mother goes on social assistance/welfare/ontario works, they WILL make her go after you for CS. Pay it now, or pay it later. It looks a LOT better if you pay it willingly.

        I always say in the absence of a court order, you pay CS like you have the custody arrangement you are asking for. Unless you can prove the mother unfit, the BEST case scenario is 50-50 physical w/ joint legal.

        Offset CS is the difference in what you pay her vs what she would pay you. It's typically used when one has at least 40% access.

        Basically you plug YOUR information in to THIS SITE and then plug in hers. (If she isn't working, then you use whatever full time hours @ minimum wage would be for her).

        Subtract the smaller # from the larger, and the person with the larger # pays the difference between the two to the person with the smaller number.

        EVERYTHING hinges on custody. If she gets sole custody with at least 61% time, then YOU owe FULL CS, AND she gets the CCTB/UCCB entitlement all to herself. She can claim the kid on her taxes ALL the time. In a 50-50 or 60-40 split, you use OFFSET CS, and you would get the CCTB in a shared arrangement.

        Basically you get delegated to a walking, talking ATM with no input and minimal involvement with your kid's life.

        CRA CCTB info

        You make arrangements to pay her directly. Send it via email money transfer and use the memo field. (FOR CS - MM/DD/YYYY - offset amount)

        If you want to be involved, then you want JOINT LEGAL (essentially and equal voice on the kid pertaining to medical, educational, and religious decisions) with 50-50 PHYSICAL access.

        She's indicated she wants SOLE CUSTODY, likely with the EOW screwjob for you. (where you get Friday - Sun Every other weekend, with ONE evening visit on the off week). That's the ATM scenario, you typically don't want that.

        So...start paying OFFSET CS right away, bank the difference between it and full CS just in case.

        Look into taking parenting classes

        Look into parenting courses for separated/divorced parents. (There is one in New Brunswick called "for the sake of the children", try to find one similar to it in your area)

        Take a infant CPR course

        You want to show you are taking steps to be involved and educated. I'm assuming you want to be fully involved, and not an EOW guy.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
          You mentioned start paying offset CS, could you elaborate? Who would I work out that arrangement with? How does that whole process exactly work?

          I'm not sure if it's true or not, but when I did speak with her mother briefly that day- she mentioned that my ex isn't even going after CS. Her concern primary is custody.
          Child support is dictate by your income. You take your annual income (usually people use line 150 from their Notice of Assessment from CRA) and look it up on a table, or use an online calculator site, and that's how much you pay the person with custody, if you have less than 40% time.

          If you share the child equally, which is what you are fighting for now, then each parent owes the other a monthly payment. But since parents don't have identical incomes, it doesn't cancel out and there's a resulting offset amount.

          So if you are the higher earner, you will end up owing some money to her for CS every month. This is what people are suggesting you start paying her now. If she doesn't have an income, you can impute one to her. This means guesstimating what she is capable of making if she were working, as it's not acceptable for her to not be supporting her own child. Based on her age and lack of education, you'd probably want to use full-time minimum wage for her income. Don't feel guilty about it, as she is living with and being supported by her mother and this simply reflects that.

          CS is the right of the child, and she can't give it up. She can not pursue it immediately, but if/when she does it later, you're on the hook for arrears.

          So you send her a cheque every month, write in the memo field that it's for CS, and clearly document how you arrived at the calculated amount. The returned cheque will be proof that you paid so she can't come back for arrears later.

          Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
          Once again, thanks for the advice everyone. I will keep everyone updated on the situation and I will take a look at that list.
          The list on that website is fairly dramatic, for the most adversarial of cases, so keep that in mind. But overall, digital recording of all interactions, and as much documentation of every event and contact as you can muster will serve you very well.

          Good luck!
          Last edited by Rioe; 04-23-2012, 03:54 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            The list is worst case scenario. (and it's US based). It IS fairly common sense though. Keep all communication in writing, (email!) keep your cool, don't engage on ANYTHING not to do with the kid. DON'T be the nice guy. The time for that is after you have a final order in place. There are dozens here who will echo that I'm sure.

            Play hardball now, or spend the next 10 years kicking yourself in the ass. 9 times in 10 it's true. If you are the 1 in 10 where it's not, then you are already ahead of the game but personally I'd recommend you hedge your bets and figure it's going to get nasty-ish at some point.

            The "nice" game on her side will last until she talks to a lawyer, you decide to assert yourself and challenge her, OR you start dating someone new.

            NBDad's Rule #1: Until the ink is dry on the final order, it's fuzzy pink bunnies and glitter farting unicorns.

            Comment


            • #21
              All the documentation given to the lawyer does not engage anything against my ex at all, besides the fact of her obviously denying me access and impacting our sons life with change/in-continuity. It's all primarily directed towards the best interest for our son, because those are my true intentions.

              If my ex does choose to play dirty- which she most likely will at some point, should I begin preparing further documentation for when & if it gets to that stage?

              I've already got a few points in my back pocket that unfortunately do slander her ability to deal with the stress of parenting, and would help build my case. I really don't want to see it get to that point, but like every one is saying- her and her lawyers are not out to play fair.

              Comment


              • #22
                Unless you have a criminal record, or some sort of mental health issue that make you a danger to the kid, it's not relevant. Don't slander her. You'll get WAY more mileage out of staying child focused and trying to promote a parenting plan that maximizes contact with BOTH parents.

                They will try to drag you through the mud, but any response you put forth is going to be ONE bullet point. If the allegations are that severe, you challenge that there is no supporting documentation to her claims, no police reports, no records of any kind. Then you move on.

                There are proper ways of handling TRUE issues like that, and she won't use those organizations. Individuals making false allegations will very very rarely do so, because it can bite them in the ass.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                  I have spoken to and retained a lawyer today. She will have the application drafted and ready for tomorrow, I will then get it served later that evening, and return the next day to file to forms with the court.
                  Good for you young man. Stay the course,be smart and there is no reason why you shouldn't get what your son needs. Best of luck. We're all rooting for you.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    My ex-girlfriend and I were together for about 2.5 years, our son was born 8 months ago. I moved into her Dad's house the moment we found out she was pregnant, at that time I was the only one bringing in income to support her throughout the pregnancy and took her to all appointments.
                    Start documenting that you did this. The dates of the appointments, with what clinicians you saw, and as a custodial parent with "joint custody" you can get the medical records from these clinicians to backup your claims. You can request copies of your child's medical records.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    One month before the birth of our son, we moved into my parents house. We had happily lived here and raised our son here till last week when she decided to up and leave.
                    Technically, the mother removed your child from their primary residence without your consent and against your wishes. She basically took the law into her own hands and may possibly be in violation of Section 283.(1) of the criminal code of Canada. (This is extreme but, pointing out the current law your access to the child is governed by until proceedings happen in Family Court).

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    She was on welfare since his birth and I was bringing in extra income with freelancing design jobs until I got a full time job 3 months ago. Also my parents supported us a lot, majority of the time we were there- they supplied all diapers, wipes, formula etc.
                    Collect the receipts from your parents proving that they provided this additional support and all your evidence to your support of the child. Don't just say you did it... Prove it with *evidence*. Receipts, bank account statements, etc. Get it all put together.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Anyway, she went to her mothers last week for "space", I was even courteous enough to drop her off. The next day I dropped off a few of the baby things she needed, and brought her some extra formula- I briefly got to see my son outside for 10 minutes or so.
                    Often parents do not understand the law and the rights of both parents. You have equal right to love and care for this child under the Criminal Code of Canada and the Children's Law Reform Act. Consult a lawyer as soon as possible on how to distil the oncoming challenges.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    A few days later she had decided the relationship was over, I drove over to her house and knocked on her door to speak to her- after being denied that, I asked to at least see my son- I was also denied that. I left.
                    Access denial. Document the date and time you requested access to your child. Continue to request access and collect the evidence to the denial of access by the other parent.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Yesterday it had been one week since I'd seen him, she had told me I can bring all her stuff over and see him with the supervision of her mother- I agreed to that.
                    Assuming you are no risk of emotional and/or physical harm to her or the child there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to equally care for the child in accordance with the above stated Acts and Laws.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Once I got there, only her mother was there and told me their lawyer suggested not letting my son or her have any contact with me till the court date.
                    Did you get service of the documentation?

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    She said they already filed for custody because they feared I was planning to take him away from them or flee the country with him. She also mentioned there's no way they would ever allow me to have 50/50 custody of him and would fight all the way even if it got dirty. I kept my cool, and left once again.
                    Make sure you document the time, date and who said this all to you and prepare it for your affidavit in response. Get a lawyer now.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Worst thing is, my brothers getting married next month and family that I only see every 5-6 years is coming over. They were all excited to see the little bundle of joy and I really wanted to introduce him to them- but seems that wont happen now.
                    Do you have the court documentation? You should have been served. Also, you can probably request and emergency motion to fix the custody and access issues. GET A GOOD LAWYER.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Alright now that I'm done with the huge back story, as you can see, I'm being denied access to my son. I have briefly spoke to a lawyer for advice but I was just wondering... what kind of custody agreements are usually decided in situations like this? I mean the child has lived in my house up until now, can she really keep him away from me like this?
                    50-50 full joint custody is what you legally have now. Just because the mother thinks not it is not the fact. In fact, they are on the borderline of child abduction. I would contact CAS to see what they can do. Both parents are equally responsible for their children.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    I want to fight for 50/50 custody, with weeks alternating. I believe its the only fair way to share bonding time with our son. I don't want to loose out on his life. What are the chances of this actually happening?
                    Don't fight. Position for 50-50 which is the defacto custody and access under the law. Unless the other parent can prove otherwise you shouldn't be an equal care giver. You should be an equal care giver. Don't fight for what is already the fact and law.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Also at the time of birth I was not put on the birth certificate and the child has her last name, will this affect my case in anyway?
                    Your paternity will be challenged.

                    Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                    Anyway, any advice or insight would greatly be appreciated.
                    Thanks
                    The removal of a child without consent or a court order is a serious undertaking of any litigant in a family matter. You have a challenge in that they may claim your paternal rights don't exist and that you are not the father.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I have not been served any documents. I didn't even think of that until yesterday when I asked the courts if she had filed anything as of yet- which she obviously hasn't. So assuming she doesn't avoid being served the papers this evening (Oh, why do I have a bad feeling about that actually happening.) I will be the first to file.

                      In your personal opinion, do you believe my situation does qualify for an emergency motion? I kept being told my a few different lawyer that those motions are usually only used if the child is under some sort of danger.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nerkkooanse View Post
                        I have not been served any documents. I didn't even think of that until yesterday when I asked the courts if she had filed anything as of yet- which she obviously hasn't. So assuming she doesn't avoid being served the papers this evening (Oh, why do I have a bad feeling about that actually happening.) I will be the first to file.

                        In your personal opinion, do you believe my situation does qualify for an emergency motion? I kept being told my a few different lawyer that those motions are usually only used if the child is under some sort of danger.
                        The lawyers are correct but, the danger is that you do not have access to the child. You are going to face a paternity question possibly.

                        Good that you are talking to solution oriented lawyers. I think a letter sent by courier (notice of service) outlining and questioning what is going on may be a better route.

                        You could file an "emergency" motion but, remember you have to document the hell out of them. Read "Tug of War" for a better reference on the expectations of the court on what is requierd for an "emergency" motion.

                        Don't play with "emergency" motions without clear and relevant evidence and you have to be more honest than honest in them. The balance of probabilities goes up a notch.

                        You are better to talk to the CAS to see how they can help possibly.

                        Good LUck!
                        Tayken

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yeah, I'm starting to lean towards avoiding the emergency motion route since there is no physical danger to my son. Still debating on it though, until I'm completely certain that my case doesn't qualify for it. It seems the only way the emergency motion would be justified is if I play dirty- which I rather not.

                          Basically the forms are completed now and will be submitted to the court by tomorrow. I suppose she'll have an allocated time to respond, and then there will be a case conference, and eventually a court date.

                          What an insanely dragged out process, my minds all over the place. I will discuss the topic of an emergency motion with my lawyer once again tomorrow to see if there is any clause we could approach with.

                          At the end of the day, I just want equal rights to my son, and she can argue all she wants but there's no doubt about it that his primary residence has been here since birth & I am more than capable of being an equal-caregiver with added support from a loving family. Hopefully this zero-contact rule her lawyer has set her on doesn't help build her case and develop a status quo, it's the only real fear I have at the moment.

                          Also, I contacted CAS and they told me there's nothing they could do to possibly help, and it'll have to be dealt with legally.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            She is playing dirty - she is denying access to your own son. Disgusting.

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                            • #29
                              Unbelievable what is happening to you. This makes me angry

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                              • #30
                                So its been awhile now, thought I'd give an update on the situation.

                                So as expected her affidavits were filled with nothing but wild allegations with zero evidence behind any of her statements. I was the first to file, which made me the applicant.

                                I attended an expedited case conference date a few days ago, where taking the judges recommendations- we had come to a temporary settlement of 2 days a week for 8 hours on each day, a non-removal order, return of any remaining items still in my possession, attend parenting classes, and to purchase a new crib for her.

                                My lawyer has advised me that this is great progress and a step towards the right direction. I am also pleased with the results seeing as I hadn't seen my son in almost a month and a half.

                                Just hoping to get some feedback and some enlightenment to whether or not this is regular procedure in regards to access, and what improvements to access I can expect in the future. Also, any tips about what I should to "protect my ass" during this time period since my ex does seem to be the malicious type and cause issues on anything she can get her hands on. I am currently keeping logs of my sons diet, time of pickup/drop-off, any rashes etc. that he arrived with and other misc. information.

                                I am currently expected to be back in court quite soon, in about a month.

                                Comment

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