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  • Child support

    Hi,
    Trying to work out separation agreement with spouse. He wants to do nesting arrangement and while we will each be responsible for our own living arrangements outside of primary, he will continue to pay for everything in the primary residence where our 3 young children live. He will pay mortgage, utilities, cable, ect. We would have 50/50 custody.
    He's expecting this to work for 16 years. I'm not convinced this is a long term solution. In the agreement he makes no note of CS. When I bring it up he says he doesn't have to pay that because he's paying for everything. My concern is if the nesting blows up. He says he's still paying for all the kids stuff, so he refuses to put it in.
    He's basically self employed. I've seen him make anywhere from $100,000 - 800,000 per year, depending on real estate. He expenses everything and his personal tax is showing around $30,000/year (his company pays him minimal).
    Any comments on this?

  • #2
    Honestly, it sounds to me like he isn't really into getting divorced and moving on. He's trying to keep things as much the same as possible for as long as possible. This arrangement is NOT going to work for very long, much less 16 years.

    To answer your direct question, I believe he would be correct. Why would he be obligated to pay you child support if he is paying 100% of everything in the home where the kids live? Yes, when things fall apart and you guys have to get divorced (for real this time) someone would be expected to pay child support to the other - don't assume it will be him paying you.

    Out of curiosity, what address will each of you be using as your primary address?

    Comment


    • #3
      totally agree with blink. If he was expecting you to pay half of all the housing costs for the home where the child stays then you may have a case. With the way it is put forward it just makes you look greedy.

      if the nesting arrangement doest work then you can revisit CS then. I have a feeling this will be the case due to the fact it would be hard to keep it up for 16 years.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Karver View Post
        In the agreement he makes no note of CS. When I bring it up he says he doesn't have to pay that because he's paying for everything. My concern is if the nesting blows up. He says he's still paying for all the kids stuff, so he refuses to put it in.
        The alternative is that he pays the offset table amount and you cover all of your own, and 50% of the kids' expenses... Think about it.

        Cheers!

        Gary

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't expect any CS if this nesting thing were to work. I'm just concerned that when it collapses, if I've signed something that doesn't include it, will I be screwed later on. I don't want to be greedy, but in the end he does make 5 - 20x more money than I do, that's why he can afford to make all these deals with me. So I guess if things go south, I can always revisit the CS issue later?

          And yes, this arrangement sounds silly, but he has said he wants to do it for the kids, as he went through 12 different schools growing up as a shuffled divorce kid. Once it's all drafted, I'll take it to a lawyer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Both our names would still be on title of house. He uses his office address for all his mail now, including all the utilities, cable ect. He pays everything out of his office through the accountants.
            I was thinking I would just get a post box for my mail? Maybe keep it here at the primary.

            Comment


            • #7
              I wonder, *when* the nesting arrangement ends (i.e. one of you gets a new partner who refuses to move every week), then you will have to face the home equalization i.e. likely he buys out your 50%.

              BUT ... what valuation date should be used for the house - separation date, or the nesting end date? Might be worth getting an appraisal done NOW to cover you down the road.

              On the totally mundane level ... how are you going to manage the fridge?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Karver View Post
                Both our names would still be on title of house. He uses his office address for all his mail now, including all the utilities, cable ect. He pays everything out of his office through the accountants.
                I was thinking I would just get a post box for my mail? Maybe keep it here at the primary.
                This won't fly if you try to claim your taxes seperately using the same address as primary residence. Similarly, neither of you can claim the marital home on your taxes for the credits etc if it isn't your primary residence.

                This just sounds like an all around bad idea with very little benefits to anyone. Short term benefits for the kids, but the long term effects of the tension and disagreements that are more likely to come out if this arrangement are just bad, bad, bad.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would not want to have the appraisal now. The house is under big renovation, which I've been very patient and living with for 2 years. He has now put on the gas and has people working here to get it done, but still has probably 6 months to go. It will be worth alot more when it's closer to complete. He's suggesting that if one of us can't tolerate the nesting, we will have option to buy out or just sell it. Like I said though, it's probably still 6 months from completion, so I would be stuck for that time. He wants the mortgage he's paid deducted from sale price and wants a renovation credit deducted- which we will have to agree on.
                  I guess I will go through house and make list of all furniture that's individual and what was bought together. After separation signed, any furniture bought is by individual.
                  Yes, I am nervous about this arrangement. But thinking longer term, if I force him to sell house or the shares he has in his real estate, it will only be a quarter of what its worth later. He's also proposing to give me half the earnings of his real estates sales- when they sell, plus half the yearly distributions these properties give while owned. It's more complicated than straight salaries

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                  • #10
                    Of course this requires interaction other than kids and a level of trust. He said he will sign any legal documents that my lawyer wants to assure me of his future promises of the real estate...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      and how exactly are you going to guarantee that he will make good on that deal?
                      I think you REALLY need some legal advice on this, both from a family law and real estate lawyer. Itis unlikely anyone on here can respond properly to such a convoluted plan. Basically he expects to keep your life in a holding pattern until he decides the home should sell...crazy!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And it wouldn't hold up in court. The house gets appraised as of seperation date, UNLESS you can prove that you were also paying the mortgage and contributed to the renovations. You can put whatever you want into a seperation agreement, that doesn't make it enforceable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, I will definately go over all this with a lawyer before I sign anything.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            karver - You live in Alberta, some of the family law rules are different.

                            You have dower rights to the matrimonial home, search the forum for this information.

                            All assets, bank accounts, property etc. will be valued at date of divorce or trial. If it takes 3 months or 3 years to agree on a settlement, this is the date of valuation, for everything. Unless both of you agree to use some other date.

                            Until your divorce is granted, you are still considered married.

                            re: dower rights...

                            It is often when a couple has been together long enough to pay off the house that this becomes an issue, since there is nothing the husband can do to force the sale.

                            http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...88/index3.html

                            InterprovincialParents-Dower rights only apply in your province...and were put into place to protect mother's rights way back when. Men would work, women stay at home. Then, upon divorce, the man would claim the house, since he paid for it. Dower rights fixed this by ensuring if their was a mutual claim/argument about the matrimonial home, it would not need court intervention, as the mom would be presumed to have right of first refusal, and not end up divorced, homeless, and without a living. (not that the history of the law is relevant...just one of those weird I know. I find it interesting that it is still in force in Alberta, but I think it is a matter of politics and family values within the population of the province.)
                            InterprovincialParents-If there is a dispute over the matrimonial home in Alberta, it goes to the wife.
                            You would still, I believe, have to pay him his share of the equity in the home. The rest of the equalisation process remains the same, and many women tend to wait for the equalisation prior to paying the other spouse their share, or simply subtracting that amount by what would be your equalisation lump.

                            If you do not sign, he cannot force you to sell, just to pay him his share of the home.
                            You can find information specific to Alberta by searching Alberta law firms. Go to the court house and talk to duty counsel, or talk to someone at the FLIC office.

                            Try Lonnie Balbi (look under L.A.W. seminars)

                            Check out this web site Alberta Justice.

                            You need legal advice during this negotiation time. If you don't know what is within your rights and what your ex is suggesting you do, (this will be in his best interest, not yours), how will you know if you are negotiating a good settlement. Your ex is self employed, you have house issues, you need to know how this should be dealt with.

                            You are using your exs. suggestions as a starting point. You should be using your own information, not his.

                            I would also recommend you attend the Parenting after Separation seminar, and the Communication after Separation, seminar. Both of these are free and available at the court house.

                            Attending these seminars will also let you become familiar with the court house. If going to the court house seems overwhelming, this is a good place to start.

                            If you wait to see a lawyer, when everything is ready to sign, you will most likely have missed something.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for the info. Your right, I'm just listening to all his ideas without really knowing anything. I need some guidance through this negotiation as much as I want to avoid big lawyer bills. I will look up Lonnie. And I was going to phone about that seminar too.
                              Like was said earlier, this is a twisted scenario he's proposing.

                              Comment

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