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  • #16
    Sorry I mis understood the situation. Your (the grandfather) as such your not party to the case, as such involving you son (who is the party of the case)
    As such by all means support your son.
    I take it, by the email that it was a clinical investigator, not a lawyer.
    As such your son has every write to full disclosure on notes.

    Your son must do all the work, your not a party as such you can't do anything.

    So it is your son who must write the Office of the children's lawyer and request full disclosure of notes including collateral notes.

    Check the notice the OCL sent when they first assigned the investigator. You'll then get the workers supervisor and the directors name as well. in my case it was N.W. and S.B.

    Dear N.W.
    CC S.B.

    I have some concerns with the report produced by (clinical investigators name) OCL Case no: (insert case number)
    I'd like to respectfully request a copy of (clinical investigators name) CV as well as all source material, and complete personal notes from all interviews, observations, and telephone calls regarding this assessment as well as questions that were asked and things that were said.
    I am also requesting a copy of the manual and procedures used by the clinical investigator.
    I would also like a copy of the policies and procedures that I must follow in order to make corrections to this report as well as the personal notes of (clinical investigator names)
    I need this information in order to correct the report.

    I can be reached by email _________ if there are any concerns regarding the content of what I am asking for.

    Then fax it to the office of the children's lawyer.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by paris View Post
      Case closed and the son got custody of the baby. That doesn't mean it's a perfect world. If I was in this situation, I'd be pissed that paperwork with false allegations was in my records.

      dp24 wants to make sure the allegations are removed from his son's files, and to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.

      I don't have the answers, but regardless of all the info given, I think it's clear what end result he's looking for.
      Paris...thank you that is exactly how I feel and what I want....clear my son and set the record straight....further I know its along shot but the OCL investigator held accountable.


      Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
      Sorry I mis understood the situation. Your (the grandfather) as such your not party to the case, as such involving you son (who is the party of the case)
      As such by all means support your son.
      I take it, by the email that it was a clinical investigator, not a lawyer.
      As such your son has every write to full disclosure on notes.

      Your son must do all the work, your not a party as such you can't do anything.

      So it is your son who must write the Office of the children's lawyer and request full disclosure of notes including collateral notes.

      Check the notice the OCL sent when they first assigned the investigator. You'll then get the workers supervisor and the directors name as well. in my case it was N.W. and S.B.

      Dear N.W.
      CC S.B.

      I have some concerns with the report produced by (clinical investigators name) OCL Case no: (insert case number)
      I'd like to respectfully request a copy of (clinical investigators name) CV as well as all source material, and complete personal notes from all interviews, observations, and telephone calls regarding this assessment as well as questions that were asked and things that were said.
      I am also requesting a copy of the manual and procedures used by the clinical investigator.
      I would also like a copy of the policies and procedures that I must follow in order to make corrections to this report as well as the personal notes of (clinical investigator names)
      I need this information in order to correct the report.

      I can be reached by email _________ if there are any concerns regarding the content of what I am asking for.

      Then fax it to the office of the children's lawyer.
      Thank you involveddad75

      Great help...

      Should my son inform the OCL in the fax that he wants to formally dispute the report?

      I have read you only have 30 days to do so.

      Comment


      • #18
        Update

        I helped my son prepare and contact the supervisor of the clinician. The supervisor would only speak to my son, no problem with that, however she indicated that talking to me in regards to this report is prohibited, yet she and the ocl have signed documents allowing it. She is now playing semantics in her wording in regards to talking to me

        Regardless my son requested all the notes expressed his right to challenge the report. The supervisor sent correspondence with the clinicians credentials and letter.

        The letter stated that the clinician will not be providing the notes as the case is final. The notification was done in the 30 day time limit.

        They are changing the rules as they go....

        - My son has won full custody
        - The report was filed after the final order was issued
        - No findings meeting took place
        - No recommendation was given in the report
        - The report is riddled with factual inaccuracies and omissions
        - The supervisor is now protecting the clinician

        I am considering filing a complaint with Discipline Committee of the Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers, also the ombudsman.

        Does anyone have any other other suggestions, I am now clearly seeing the clinician has definitely delivered a report that he is worried about....I am sure the party that prevails very rarely is the one to complain, but that is the case here.

        This clinician needs to be held accountable so he cannot do this again.

        Comment


        • #19
          Don't think you can challenge the report, you can dispute it in writing, but you won't be able to "test" the report unless you call the assessor as a witness, since your case is closed that won't happen.
          You can make a complaint to the OCL and the ombudsman. But wait until you have disclosure.
          How did you ask for disclosure? Phone or fax?
          If you have done it over the phone so be it, now fax a request in.
          If you have sent the request in fax, then I would send a new fax stating that they haven't provided the disclosure of the colateral notes.
          Fax one copy to the Assessor's fax, cc supervisor
          fax the same letter to supervisor.
          If you have done all this and a week has gone by and they haven't responded.
          then I would be faxing the regional director / supervisor.
          You son would be explaining that he is making a formal complaint about the lack of disclosure provided, and that he feels this report in the continuing record could damage future opportunities in his life.

          Your son could also file a 14B motion requesting full disclosure from the OCL.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
            Don't think you can challenge the report, you can dispute it in writing, but you won't be able to "test" the report unless you call the assessor as a witness, since your case is closed that won't happen.
            You can make a complaint to the OCL and the ombudsman. But wait until you have disclosure.
            How did you ask for disclosure? Phone or fax?
            If you have done it over the phone so be it, now fax a request in.
            If you have sent the request in fax, then I would send a new fax stating that they haven't provided the disclosure of the colateral notes.
            Fax one copy to the Assessor's fax, cc supervisor
            fax the same letter to supervisor.
            If you have done all this and a week has gone by and they haven't responded.
            then I would be faxing the regional director / supervisor.
            You son would be explaining that he is making a formal complaint about the lack of disclosure provided, and that he feels this report in the continuing record could damage future opportunities in his life.

            Your son could also file a 14B motion requesting full disclosure from the OCL.

            Thank you involveddad75

            The request was made by fax, mail and email to the supervisor. The supervisor is stating that the case is now closed and the clinician will not be providing disclosure.

            Since the case is closed, can a 14b still be filed?

            I am quite sure that the OCL believes they can just walk away from this. At first the supervisor stated how she really wanted to help. She asked for all the factual inaccuracies and omissions to be put in writing and sent to her. My son responded to that stating he would oblige after disclosure. That's when they refused to provide disclosure of any kind and the refusal is in writing.

            Would it be advisable to file a complaint with the Discipline Committee of the Ontario College of Social Workers?

            I now believe it was a waste of time contacting the supervisor as she is backing the clinician before we even start.

            This is also taken the frustration to a new level....why are they so hell bent on not following procedure and making rules on the fly with this case......

            Comment


            • #21
              Hi OP:

              Read my threads for my background and some informative stuff on "assessment reports" and the governance of the clinicians who create these "reports".

              I would not recommend bothering to bring forward a complaint to a college in the matter.

              See:

              DG v SJG, 2013 CanLII 64301 (ON HPARB)
              Date: 2013-10-10
              Docket: 12-CRV-0577
              URL: CanLII - 2013 CanLII 64301 (ON HPARB)
              Citation: DG v SJG, 2013 CanLII 64301 (ON HPARB)

              Unless you are willing to retain a lawyer competent in malpractice lawsuits and bring forward a clinician who is willing to go on record disputing the report it isn't worth your time and effort.

              Give the link to the case law I provided a read and really think about what you would get out of a complaint. Self satisfaction?

              I suspect OP that there is something contained in the report that is possibly negative about you or that you don't agree with. As the matter is ordered final, my recommendation would be to let it go and not worry about convincing this "professional" that they "got it wrong" about you or any of your family members.

              The report is now a lost document in a court file that will probably never see the light of day again... Let sleeping dogs lie... Unless you feel that the negligence is of such a manner that others are a risk due to the conduct of the clinician, it just isn't worth your time, effort, emotions and dollars.

              You aren't going to prove anything to anyone by raising a complaint... In fact, complaints can come back to haunt you and may be used to demonstrate you as high conflict person.

              If the order is incorrect and was based on false evidence presented by the clinician you can dispute an OCL report through an official mechanism already provided, should have cross examined the clinician at trial and failing that, should be appealing any decision that was made on false information. But, as it was filed late it had no impact on the court order so, why do you care what this person wrote? They are just words on paper trapped in a court record that will become more and more irrelevant every day that the other party doesn't act on it...

              Best way to defeat a poorly written and/or negligent and/or ill informed and/or poorly written and/or just plain old crappy custody and access assessment (Section 30 or OCL) is time... These reports age and over time become less and less relevant. Also, the child in question will demonstrate that what was written was all of the above by developing, going to school and growing up to be a positive contributor to our country. Help your son raise the child in a good home environment and anything the assessment report will eventually demonstrate it to be all garbage.

              It may feel "good" to complain... It may even be cathartic but, generally, for most people it does not bring any of the necessary resolution they are seeking. What feels even better... Is being a great grandparent/parent to the child and helping them to find happiness, love and success in their lives. You can't do this being preoccupied fighting it out with the OCL over some words written on paper that will eventually wither into oblivion.

              Finally, this is the fathers responsibility. As a non-party you won't be considered with much weight if at all. The only reason the posting I provided made it to CanLII was probably because the parent in that matter harassed the clinician and the college so much.

              Focus on your grandchild and help the parent be a better parent. Reduce the conflict in everything you and the parent do and the healthier and happier the child will be growing up. That is the best thing you can do for this child now... Disengage and reduce conflict... Not create it and engage in it.

              Good Luck!
              Tayken
              Last edited by Tayken; 12-02-2013, 12:18 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                Hi OP:

                Read my threads for my background and some informative stuff on "assessment reports" and the governance of the clinicians who create these "reports".

                I would not recommend bothering to bring forward a complaint to a college in the matter.

                See:

                DG v SJG, 2013 CanLII 64301 (ON HPARB)
                Date: 2013-10-10
                Docket: 12-CRV-0577
                URL: CanLII - 2013 CanLII 64301 (ON HPARB)
                Citation: DG v SJG, 2013 CanLII 64301 (ON HPARB)

                Unless you are willing to retain a lawyer competent in malpractice lawsuits and bring forward a clinician who is willing to go on record disputing the report it isn't worth your time and effort.

                Give the link to the case law I provided a read and really think about what you would get out of a complaint. Self satisfaction?

                I suspect OP that there is something contained in the report that is possibly negative about you or that you don't agree with. As the matter is ordered final, my recommendation would be to let it go and not worry about convincing this "professional" that they "got it wrong" about you or any of your family members.

                The report is now a lost document in a court file that will probably never see the light of day again... Let sleeping dogs lie... Unless you feel that the negligence is of such a manner that others are a risk due to the conduct of the clinician, it just isn't worth your time, effort, emotions and dollars.

                You aren't going to prove anything to anyone by raising a complaint... In fact, complaints can come back to haunt you and may be used to demonstrate you as high conflict person.

                If the order is incorrect and was based on false evidence presented by the clinician you can dispute an OCL report through an official mechanism already provided, should have cross examined the clinician at trial and failing that, should be appealing any decision that was made on false information.

                It may feel "good" to complain... It may even be cathartic but, generally, for most people it does not bring any of the necessary resolution they are seeking.

                Finally, this is the fathers responsibility. As a non-party you won't be considered with much weight if at all. The only reason the posting I provided made it to CanLII was probably because the parent in that matter harassed the clinician and the college so much.

                Focus on your grandchild and help the parent be a better parent. Reduce the conflict in everything you and the parent do and the healthier and happier the child will be growing up. That is the best thing you can do for this child now... Disengage and reduce conflict... Not create it and engage in it.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken
                Thank you Tayken

                Just to be clear, I do not believe anything in the report could hurt my son in the future after carefully reading. At first ya it seems tough, but not really.

                This clinician blames CAS and local Police for his in ability not to give a recommendation. His secondary blame goes to the mother, the one that failed to make the last 3 appointments with him.

                It maybe perceived as high conflict, however this clinician formed an opinion before the he met both parties, then nothing fit that narrative so he chose to fabricate information...He further displayed hostility and ignorance in regards to a pediatrician's notes...stating and I quote " a doctor trumps me and the court". I do not say that without fact to back it up.

                This Clinician vocalized his complete disagreement with the judges initial interim order of mom having supervision...

                The OCL's reluctance to provide disclosure is suspect to say the least...the reason for that is clear. Prior to this starting my son consulted a former OCL clinician and now Dr of Physcology. He was advised by her and his lawyer to provide everything he could relevant. Information was provided so much so it would take the clinician a week to copy it all. This information included correspondence that is factual and never made in the report. The Dr also told my son the process that is to play out and this Dr will come forward if needed.

                When the clinician was made aware that my son was speaking to a Physiologist and offered the chance to speak to her....he declined.

                The biggest fear is...what if this clinician's report turns a child back over to situation that puts that child at risk.

                Like the fact we are helping my granddaughters mother, I would feel with this knowledge doing nothing would be despicable on my part.

                An olive branch was extended to handle this internally with the OCL...they have declined that offer.

                Would you just let it go, please keep in mind I have only given a few of the concerns.....here is a couple that are very provable

                OCL report mentions 3 times a paternity test was done at birth and the under pinning / context was that my son wanted nothing to do with the baby.....This is false...no paternity test was ordered or done at birth and my son was present for the delivery, present for the first 3 weeks and at 7 weeks assumed full custody.....

                OCL report states that CAS received an anonymous tip that the mother was abusing Oxycontin....This as well is false.....and if you could read the report you would understand why this too was a neg towards my son....The report mentioned approx 20 times his entrenched position that mom was doing drugs, yet he also mentions she was clean in her drug tests 3 times...the under pinning is that he kept making accusations with no fact and wow an anonymous shows up to CAS......If i am reading it for the first time it clearly looks like that was a convenient time for a tip.

                The sad deal is it was my son that had the anonymous tip leveled at him.

                I have since learned the OCL was privy to a very serious police report that involved Mom in Dec 2012...a knife attack that she and others drove the attacker on the hood of the car for 2km...the police concluded it was all drug related......NO MENTION.

                I could give 10-15 similar details....It is absolutely incredible the omissions alone....a different attack video that made the front page of newspapers across Canada, you would think should have made the report.....NOT AT ALL....it made it the court room however and with an overwhelming amount of information the judge made the easy decision.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Here is a case that the same Clinician did:...I am omitting the names.



                  [10] An investigation was done by the Office of the Children’s Lawyer, which generated a report dated May 9, 2011, authored by *******. He recommended that sole custody be awarded to the mother, both in his report and in his testimony at trial.


                  [11] Family and Children’s Services of ********* also supported an award of sole custody to the mother. The child protection worker who was assigned to the file from February 2010 to October 2011 was ********. She was of the view that the children were at risk due to the controlling behaviour of the father. He insisted on speaking to the children on the telephone every single day, and often several times each day. When the mother refused or neglected to take his calls, consequences ensued, which included the father showing up at the mother’s residence and unilaterally taking the children away, or calling the police on her. ******** saw this as a form of harassment, which interfered with the mother’s ability to establish a stable routine for the children.


                  [12] The trial judge essentially dismissed the evidence of both ******* and ********, and awarded sole custody to the father. He concluded that the mother’s apparent stress and deficits as a parent were related not to the father’s controlling behaviour but instead to the mother’s anxiety, depression, adult ADD and other related problems that go back many years. It is that order which is now under appeal.


                  The case was then changed back to joint custody....

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    It sounds to me like dp24 wants the problems with the assessment known and documented not to help his own case but to prevent the assessor from doing the bad job on future cases.

                    If we have a bad experience at a restaurant or with a contractor, or at a school, or with a lawyer, there is a complaint process.

                    So what is the complaint process for OCL?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                      It sounds to me like dp24 wants the problems with the assessment known and documented not to help his own case but to prevent the assessor from doing the bad job on future cases.

                      If we have a bad experience at a restaurant or with a contractor, or at a school, or with a lawyer, there is a complaint process.

                      So what is the complaint process for OCL?
                      Funny thing when I first read this I was worried it may harm my son when protecting his daughter in the future....I know now that is highly unlikely. A dispute was filed, no findings were permitted and chances are unless the OCL wants to come to court and back it up in the future, it is not worth the paper its written on.

                      You have summed it up....I want others to know this OCL is incompetent, has fabricated information and shows serious bias in his reporting.

                      Complaint that has teeth....

                      I have contacted the Discipline Committee of the Ontario College of Social Workers.....I have not made a formal complaint, just inquiring to see if they would even tread in this area.

                      I have also decided to file with the ombudsman next year, after reading alot it seems the ombudsman would reject the case based on a complaint about the outcome...however not on the procedural issues( denying disclosure, no findings, filed after case was closed)...Before the ombudsman i will ask for assistance from the premiers office and local mpp..... I am determined to rattle his cage enough that he should probably refrain from doing this in the future.

                      If all that fails then I will fund a lawyer for my son to take whatever action against the clinician possible.....I wonder if civil action could be taken against the clinician personally or would he be shielded? I have been in court enough via my own custody case 20 years ago, several civil matters in relation to work and when I say it will be simple to impeach this OCL for fabrication and show bias....I mean it.... the mom is also in favor of this....

                      One thing that we would not be able to prove, however it has now surfaced as a possibility...the mom's grandfather (ex biker) offered a bribe...apparently it is known that he did with her lawyer....however not known if he did the same with the OCL

                      It is just an odd deal, mom says he spent no time with her during the couple visits she did attend, rather he spent all his time with gramps comparing and discussing tattoos.....btw the OCL is from a pretty famous biker town....coincidence I guess.

                      I hope he is reading this and realizes were not going to walk away....

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        One year after the report........

                        Just wanted to let everyone know, my son received a call from the provincial manager, the OCL has had his employment terminated. The reasons for the termination however is not a result of the mishandling of this case. However it directly involved me my wife and son. It was a total breach of confidentiality. Now we have a whole new issue with the OCL and will be further looking at civil action.

                        We are also pursuing his removal at the College of Social Workers.

                        If anyone had him in their case it will be simple to have the entire report removed.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Excellent that you followed up on things. So often people do nothing and hence the reason these incompetent people maintain their employment.

                          Thanks for sharing.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Great work on sticking with this. Thanks for letting us know the outcome!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              Focus on your grandchild and help the parent be a better parent. Reduce the conflict in everything you and the parent do and the healthier and happier the child will be growing up. That is the best thing you can do for this child now... Disengage and reduce conflict... Not create it and engage in it.
                              Tayken travels a distinguished road...

                              Comment

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