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  • #31
    At the moment, when I look at the divorcees around me with young children, the cooperative parents that should have equal parenting do - and the conflict parents don't - that, to me, seems to be in the best interest of the child. It’s a hot mess, and I know I don’t have the answers - but I’m confident this Bill is not the answer and suspect it will be easily defeated.
    There is already an assumption of shared custody/access during separation and unless someone acts irresponsibly (ie. moves out of the home, doesn't use their access, allows the other parent to act as gatekeeper, etc) the status quo is generally maintained in the interim order and often carries to the final order.

    Judges generally request expert testimony from an evaluator to make custody/access judgements...they don't automatically give unfair custody/access to the female. The problem is that a lot of men get into really uneven status quo situations because they don't exercise their fair access during separation and let the mother (who often did the majority of child-rearing pre-separation) to gatekeeper access.

    The previous poster "Mother" who suggested that female litigants can abscond the children without any legal repercussions is just spouting pure idiocy.

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    • #32
      I support this bill, and anyone else that supports this bill can see sign the petitions I posted about here: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...49/#post163595

      To address some of the comments, this Bill does not aim to have children in a shared parenting situation when it is injurious to them. The goal is to have it so one parent can not limit 's involvement without cause. The Goal of the Bill is to have "equal shared parenting to be treated as the rebuttable presumption in custody decisions, except in cases of proven neglect or abuse."

      That means the presumption of equal shared parenting can be rebutted, but not without cause, and proof that there should be shared parenting, but also that in cases where there is abuse and/or neglect there is no assumption that there be shared parenting.

      My own situation would have been a lot different had these amendments been in place when I separated almost 3 years ago. I wouldn't still be fighting for 50/50 with my children because it would be there already.

      Comment


      • #33
        HI Singing Dad

        Sorry to hear you're still having to battle for shared parenting.

        I have no personal experience with custody.

        In a nut-shell what this Bill proposes is to get rid of the "status quo" which seem to be what many custody/access disputes end up in?

        I remember decades ago I would hear people say "whoever gets the house gets the kids" or "whoever gets the kids gets the house." There must be some truth to some of this as there is certainly alot of focus and opinion expressed on the topic of exclusive possession of the matrimonial home at the time of separation.

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        • #34
          I remember decades ago I would hear people say "whoever gets the house gets the kids" or "whoever gets the kids gets the house." There must be some truth to some of this as there is certainly alot of focus and opinion expressed on the topic of exclusive possession of the matrimonial home at the time of separation.
          Things have changed. Its one of the reasons that now there are so many long in-home separations. No one generally gets the house unless there's a buy-out. The only exception to that is in exclusive possession cases because having the house that the kids live in makes it easier to block access and set-up an inequitable status quo.

          Generally both people share the house/kids until there's an interim custody order and then the house gets dealt with. Unless someone does something stupid and moves out...the old rules don't apply.

          The problem is that the new rules about in-home separations aren't exactly ideal either. It creates high stress, high potential conflict and a higher probabability of fake DV charges.

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          • #35
            So essentially everyone is stuck living with each other until the interim custody order? If one moves out the other side has the edge? Sounds like things haven't changed much at all. Only thing different is that income of both parties is considered in determining the CS. I think at one time it used to be simply the person who got custody of the kids got the money. Probably still holds true in some cases.

            I have to say I am quite astonished at how much money goes to the person who has the kids by way of government money. We used to call it the "baby bonus" and I believe it was a paltry $25.00/month until a certain age then it went up a small amount.

            No wonder it is a ferocious fight to the finish when financially there is so much at stake. Perhaps the government "baby bonus" should be re-examined. Seems to me there is quite the financial reward for getting custody. Of course I realize raising kids is quite expensive.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              So essentially everyone is stuck living with each other until the interim custody order? If one moves out the other side has the edge? Sounds like things haven't changed much at all. Only thing different is that income of both parties is considered in determining the CS. I think at one time it used to be simply the person who got custody of the kids got the money. Probably still holds true in some cases.

              I have to say I am quite astonished at how much money goes to the person who has the kids by way of government money. We used to call it the "baby bonus" and I believe it was a paltry $25.00/month until a certain age then it went up a small amount.

              No wonder it is a ferocious fight to the finish when financially there is so much at stake. Perhaps the government "baby bonus" should be re-examined. Seems to me there is quite the financial reward for getting custody. Of course I realize raising kids is quite expensive.
              The new baby bonus system, Child Tax Credit, is based on household income, in addition to number of children. In many situations it isn't a large sum. I get exactly the same amount for my one daughter now as my parents did for me all those years ago - $60 a month.

              When I got married, my household income doubled and my Child Tax Credit was substantially decreased. We can only claim one child as dependent, even though we have two (my step-son part time). His mother receives the Child Tax Credit for him.

              It's in my agreement that I claim and receive the CTC, so I've never had to deal with sharing it like some other posters have done.

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              • #37
                Thanks for the info. You're probably a high-income earner!

                What is the minimum and maximum range (or is there one) for CTC? Perhaps I've been given some incorrect information in the past.

                Comment


                • #38
                  So essentially everyone is stuck living with each other until the interim custody order? If one moves out the other side has the edge?
                  Yep....so when you go to a lawyer, the first thing they advise you is not to move out. My ex next door neighbor (a male) actually filed against his then wife and the lawyer buried an exclusive possession order in the filing which the lawyer she had missed. 30-days passed without her response, so his motion goes through....I came home one night and there's cops all over my driveway because they were kicking her out of the home. They had two small kids..and in the time that it took for them to get a case conference, he set-up a status quo of getting the kids on the bus, picking them up and constantly blocked her access. She was a psychologist who dealt with kids and yet actually managed to lose primary custody and access to her kids due to him getting the house and setting up status quo.

                  I don't think the system is ideal in this regard but its not easy to fix because to fix it would require both parents to honor the 50/50 access rule and there's sooo any games played.

                  I have to say I am quite astonished at how much money goes to the person who has the kids by way of government money. We used to call it the "baby bonus" and I believe it was a paltry $25.00/month until a certain age then it went up a small amount.
                  I received zero until I got separated for either of my children. My household income was too high.

                  I don't have sharing issues either since my ex works in the US. Our agreement states that he claims the credits there and I get the ones here since I'm now working in Canada...works out nicely.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                    For me, presumptive equal parenting fails in that in many divorces, you are dealing with one or more of: (1) a history of family violence; (2) high levels of conflict; (3) one parent who has, pre-separation, been hands-off in raising the kids; (4) irreconcilable differences of opinions about raising children; (5) addiction or other mental issues; (6)..... I could go on, but I think you’ll get the picture.

                    The case that Tayken recently posted under “Truisms Exposed” is one example - the judge had to make a decision to place the children with one parent, shared parenting is and was not an option. The kids were being emotionally destroyed by both parents. You just don't throw all of the above junk onto the children - which is what would happen, in a high conflict equal parenting scenario.

                    Just look at some of the more recent posters here on this site - they would be terrible candidates for shared parenting (although they insist it is the ex whom is HC, not themselves and look forward to teaching their ex a lesson - how do you coparent with that?).
                    So...
                    As opposed to presumptive equal parenting, you support presumption that these conditions exist in the first place? No need to prove them in court, we just presume they are a pre-exisiting condition!

                    Until such time as these concerns are DIS-proven, well - only one parent should get custody.

                    ... I really don't know what to do with that.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by arabian View Post
                      Thanks for the info. You're probably a high-income earner!

                      What is the minimum and maximum range (or is there one) for CTC? Perhaps I've been given some incorrect information in the past.
                      Hardly high income. The household income is less than $90K, so it doesn't seem to take much at all to be bumped right out of eligibility.

                      I do believe that it does go up exponentially with more children in the household.

                      I don't believe the old baby bonus was linked with income.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I know of a woman who had 4 kids and left her husband because she found the situation intolerable and opted to stay with a friend close-by. Having limited means, she had a lousy lawyer. Husband had money and full custody was awarded to her ex. She had to fight very hard for 2 years before she was granted shared custody.

                        What a nightmare. What a waste of 2 yrs!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          I know of a woman who had 4 kids and left her husband because she found the situation intolerable and opted to stay with a friend close-by. Having limited means, she had a lousy lawyer. Husband had money and full custody was awarded to her ex. She had to fight very hard for 2 years before she was granted shared custody.

                          What a nightmare. What a waste of 2 yrs!
                          Awful. Nightmare indeed. I can't imagine an in-house separation at all, especially with children involved. The tension could be intolerable for all concerned.

                          I assume your friend was an otherwise capable mom? What a way for life to take a left turn on you. Money makes the difference doesn't it?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Friend is an awesome mother. To make matters more difficult, one of her children has severe developmental disability. The ex took full advantage of the 2 yrs he had custody and did the classic alienation.

                            She ended up doing extremely well self-representing. She asked lots of questions (on this forum as well as much individual research) and persevered. She is currently pursuing post graduate degree (correspondence) while working and looking after her kids 50% of the time. Really quite amazing.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              Friend is an awesome mother. To make matters more difficult, one of her children has severe developmental disability. The ex took full advantage of the 2 yrs he had custody and did the classic alienation.

                              She ended up doing extremely well self-representing. She asked lots of questions (on this forum as well as much individual research) and persevered. She is currently pursuing post graduate degree (correspondence) while working and looking after her kids 50% of the time. Really quite amazing.
                              Thanks for posting that. It's nice to hear that people can recover and thrive under adversity.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I know of a woman who had 4 kids and left her husband because she found the situation intolerable and opted to stay with a friend close-by. Having limited means, she had a lousy lawyer. Husband had money and full custody was awarded to her ex. She had to fight very hard for 2 years before she was granted shared custody.
                                That's why I've said time and time again...losing your kids often really has nothing to do with gender. Its about status quo. Regardless of gender, you cannot leave your house during a separation and you must exercise your access rights. Do not let anyone gatekeeper the kids. The problem is that people often follow the same habits in separation that they did in marriage. So a spouse that worked more and let the other spouse watch the kids more...they'll keep those habits up in separation and it forms a bad status quo.

                                What people should do in separation is simply insist upon a fair 50/50 access schedule, stay in the house, and document all their time with the kids. If you do that...regardless of gender...you have a very high chance of ending up with a joint custody arrangement at the end of your divorce.

                                Losing custody/access isn't about gender...its about people who don't understand how family law rules work. If you do certain things (like moving out without a sep agreement), male or female, you have a good chance of losing custody of your kids.

                                Comment

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