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  • Ocl and childrens views

    We are heading into a motion to change to have my parenting time slashed from nearly 50/50 down to every other weekend.

    The ocl was appointed last year and further a clinician to speak to the children on the views and preferences. The children agreed they only wished to come see me every other weekend instead of the current status quo of 2.75 years. Kids are 9 & 11.

    The kids reasoning provided to the ocl and clinician was they did not like the back and forth between homes. The children preferred moms home instead. (Side note, mom kept the matrimonial home).

    Do I stand any chance heading to a motion ? Are the children’s views and preferences the be all end all? I refuse to give up. Kids do not know best and I cannot stand to be thought of becoming a every other weekend dad.

  • #2
    In a previous thread you said you were fighting for a change in support as you have over 40% but only 6 overnights every two weeks.

    What changed from your previous posts? It sounded like you had eOW or close to it now you say you had 50/50?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
      In a previous thread you said you were fighting for a change in support as you have over 40% but only 6 overnights every two weeks.

      What changed from your previous posts? It sounded like you had eOW or close to it now you say you had 50/50?

      Yes I have them 6/14 nights every 2 weeks. The change in support has turned into this battle ever since the OCL was appointed. Now all of a sudden moms new position that of the childrens.

      Comment


      • #4
        You also don’t live in the city which makes it difficult for the kids who are established in their neighbourhood. As they get older they will have even more reasons to want to be closer to their local area. Things like jobs, gf/bf etc.

        Depending on what the OCL report says, it may not necessarily be mom’s fault. It may be the situation and the children’s area. When they grow up in an area and have established connections there, those connections get strengthened as they age. This happened to a friend of mine. Her ex lived on the other side of town. The kids hated going there because there was nothing to do and no one to hang out with. The parents had a talk and dad moved closer making it a better transition between the houses.

        Comment


        • #5
          I hear what you are saying. Mom does not live in a city. She lives in the country 20 minutes from the city where the kids go to school. All their friends live 20 minutes away. (Same city as the school).
          I live in a actual city, 10 minutes from the kids school. No mention of friends or neighbourhood in the ocl report. I keep in touch with my old neighbour and they rarely see the kids if ever.

          I guess what I’m trying to understand is how children can be given a choice at such a young age and my only option is to back down or head to another motion? If my children don’t want what is for dinner, do we as parents just give in and make something else because they know best ?

          Comment


          • #6
            The OCL report isn’t written in stone. It can be challenged. You can look up cases here and on canlii.

            The bigger problem is that you didn’t have the extra access. She gave it to you voluntarily and then you sought to reduce cs. Of course she is going to fight.

            Best to look up cases where ocl was challenged and see what your options are.

            Comment


            • #7
              It doesn't matter what the OCL report recommend. What the court will look at is a change of circumstances.

              Once that change has been confirmed, they will then look at your situation during the marriage or since the final order is in place, at the present time and what you are offering in the future. For example, how the child was doing in school during the marriage/since the final order comparing at the present time. Was the child struggling and still? What can you do, what do you suggest to help the child to achieve what is best for him/her?

              Also, the children are saying they want to stay with mom. The argument is very vague as it implies to cutting contact time with you but they are supported by so many factors that you will have a hard time to debate (same house, neighbourhood, habits, security and comfort, etc...). What you need to ask is are they really expressing what they really want as preference and choice? Do you think mom is interfering with expressing their views?

              This is where you need to sit down and look carefully at the puzzle. Look up on canLII, there is plenty of cases where the OCL report was challenged and overturned. Also, look for cases where children were expressing their views under the influence of the custodial parent. That one is harder to fight, more than the ocl report. Unless there is clear evidence that the other parent is indeed interfering.

              Comment


              • #8
                Most of this will be determined by the cross examination of the OCL investigator.

                If you are in a proper Family Law court with experienced judges... and the distances between homes and to school are reasonable and you have an existing order... likelihood of it changing on the opinion of the OCL is low.

                But, what puzzles me is if you have near-shared-residence why are you even in court? Do you not have an existing order/agreement outlining residential schedule of the child(ren)?

                Comment


                • #9
                  My children were 14, 12 and 7 when we broke up. My ex wanted to keep the house so I did everything and gave her all the time she needed to do so. A thing I will regret as it plays a lot against me for parenting time.

                  When she lost at trial and had to make the equalization payment, she almost had to sell the house and used that to side the children against me. If I would have known, I would have simply ask for the house to be listed so I could have a fare share from the market. That would have destabilized the so call good comfort of living in the same home. I'm pretty sure things would have been different with ex having to move in a less good looking house at a lower value in a much different neighbourhood. All because I was thinking of the best interest of the children.

                  My advice, if the best interest of the children is in favor of the interest of your ex, do not aby. F**k the best interest when it does not help your own interest. Brampton33 just pointed out. Children will most often choose to live in the same house because this is what they are used to. It's sad, but to preserve a relationship with your children with higher chances it is better when the matrimonial home is sold so none of the parent is favorized over the other.

                  In Family Court, only consider YOUR interest being the best interest of the children.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mafia007 View Post
                    My children were 14, 12 and 7 when we broke up. My ex wanted to keep the house so I did everything and gave her all the time she needed to do so. A thing I will regret as it plays a lot against me for parenting time.

                    When she lost at trial and had to make the equalization payment, she almost had to sell the house and used that to side the children against me. If I would have known, I would have simply ask for the house to be listed so I could have a fare share from the market. That would have destabilized the so call good comfort of living in the same home. I'm pretty sure things would have been different with ex having to move in a less good looking house at a lower value in a much different neighbourhood. All because I was thinking of the best interest of the children.

                    My advice, if the best interest of the children is in favor of the interest of your ex, do not aby. F**k the best interest when it does not help your own interest. Brampton33 just pointed out. Children will most often choose to live in the same house because this is what they are used to. It's sad, but to preserve a relationship with your children with higher chances it is better when the matrimonial home is sold so none of the parent is favorized over the other.

                    In Family Court, only consider YOUR interest being the best interest of the children.

                    Ya I second this despite the fact I am a child of divorce. In my husband’s case, he turned down fighting for an additional $100,000 to $200,000 in the best interest of the kids but all he got was anger and resentment because mom was in debt for having to buy him out. It was back at the tail end of the recession and she could have found something else for a reasonable price but she dug in and he was tired of fighting and wanted to stop the madness for his kids sake. They ended up siding with mom on all her lies and have no contact with him. (I have many feelings which I will save)

                    In my family’s case, the house was an albatross we couldn’t shake. We had to do all the work and while I learned a lot about home maintenance and being a property owner, no 10-14 year old should have to manage basement flooding, grass cutting and shoveling a giant driveway. It was entirely my mom’s doing and my siblings and I ended up in big debt having to take out loans for things like a new roof, a newer car and other property maintenance issues. She wanted to stay in the house but we would have survived elsewhere.

                    Staying in the matrimonial home is such a bs best for the kids issue and OCL should probably update it to a stable home environment and full access to both parents. It should be an overall approach not the out dated crap they do now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brampton33 View Post
                      This is certainly a conundrum many face. Often after a divorce, parents are in a battle with eachother to "offer a better home" in hopes that the kids will eventually express wanting to exclusively live with them. Some buy extravagant gifts and fill the house with toys, pools, and trampolines. Others let the kids run free with no rules at their home to try to be the "cool home". At that age, it is important for kids to maintain and build relationships with both their parents. Both parents should be working together at promoting this, not enabling them to be eroded.
                      This does work with children over 14. But, when under 14 and an existing order is in place the "material change of circumstance" bar is hard to climb. I have a feeling someone accidently consented or agreed a material change occurred. Most worth-their-weight lawyers representing the OP would crush this at the material change point and never allow their client to consent to OCL.

                      I suspect someone consented to OCL... Now they have to deal with the med they made.

                      No one should ever invite the OCL into their case. (Or a Section 30 assessor!)

                      Comment

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