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  • continuing education, first and post grad degrees.

    a take off from another thread:

    I come from a family of professionals, and most of us have a bunch of initials that in the day-to-day work force mean actually nothing.

    I was told by my lawyer that, given that we had two professional parents, and lived in Ontario, it would be argued successfully that the ex and I pay for grad and post grad degrees. No 1/3; 1/3; 1/3.

    Living in Ontario seemed key, as my lawyer suggested those on the east coast facing more difficult economic times and on average, less education, weren't expected to deliver a degree.

    Our daughter is in gr. 11 and is now working on lining up for scholarships, and actually I think she's got a couple lined up and will qualify/obtain those.

    I'm just wondering, from those of us in Ontario, how many have you been told that secondary schooling will be 7 - 8 years minimum?
    Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

  • #2
    Judge at the CC suggested to stop funding "kid"'s education after a Master Degree, but Ex wouldn't hear of it. We're on the hook for as long as the "kid" is studying... I did, however, insist on 1/3 funding from the kid - there's a limit to parental generosity (and 2/3 shared by parents as per their income %)!

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    • #3
      I'm sorry, but I don't think any kid should be getting full funding from parents past the first bachelors degree. By the time you are going into a Masters, you are into your 20s and need to start paying for yourself, either through grants, stipends or work. That doesn't mean parents shouldn't contribute, but they should not be rainsing entitled adults either (not saying that you are, its just my opinion)

      I will be finished paying for my BSC in 3 months. Took me 11 years, and I paid every penny. And now I am doing my Masters (part time) and I have managed to pay every penny of tuition back before the following fall start. It is easily possible for a determined young person to do this, and IMHO very important to raising responsible children. Even now I have just started a chores list with my daughter (5) which works towards an "allowance" and also a good behaviour chart, which earns her a reward of her choice.

      Torontonian: If your ex wants to fund the education indefinitely, then by all means let her. But this could backfire and you may end up paying for a 35 year old student who lives in your ex's basement! Dont, laugh, it happens all the time! Dont let her stop you from drawing a very reasonable line!

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      • #4
        I agree with you, we (parents) both paid our own ways through Uni - however, the expectations for kids of divorced parents are very different nowadays... From what I read on Canlii, it's a given you are paying up to the degree you personally have, so for doctors, the kid's Med School - or for Profs, the kid's PhD... You can see on this forum the frustrations of many parents "forced" into a money machine... Start saving into an RESP
        PS/ my kid is good and is independent, phewww!

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        • #5
          oh, I have started saving. And also encouraging my child to earn her spending money. Not that I dont splurge on her once in a while, but she certainly doesnt get something just because she asks or wants it!

          I am horrified however about the thought of parents being forced to pay for thier childs education solely because they are divorced. Just because you may have a post secondary degree does not mean you actually can afford to pay for your child to get one.

          I think a better determination of how much each parent should legally be forced to contribute should include HOW that parent paid for their education (in addition to the ability to pay). If a parent had their education paid for through a trust fund, then there is a good chance that option will apply to their children. But If I took 10+ years to pay back my OSAP loans (and learned a LOT about budgeting along the way), why should the court be able to force me to pay for her education, and not allow her the ability to "learn the ropes" like I did.

          I am fully willing to give her the financial advantage that I didn't have, but ideally my child will also learn to be self-sufficient along the way

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          • #6
            Originally posted by torontonian View Post
            I agree with you, we (parents) both paid our own ways through Uni - however, the expectations for kids of divorced parents are very different nowadays... From what I read on Canlii, it's a given you are paying up to the degree you personally have, so for doctors, the kid's Med School - or for Profs, the kid's PhD... You can see on this forum the frustrations of many parents "forced" into a money machine... Start saving into an RESP
            PS/ my kid is good and is independent, phewww!
            I realize this is the way it is, but I don't agree with it. Provided that I'm never in a CP/NCP situation, I will never pay for my kid's university. I will help by providing a place to live and food in their belly, but tuition is on them. Like I did for my bachelor degree, they can fund it through student loans, part time work and scholarships.

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            • #7
              that is great idea Teenwolf! I agree about paying for their support, but yes, earning their degree is an important part of that education. And since it follows the pattern that you went through (paying your way) it also agrees with my idea that determination for post secondary expensense should consider the history and method you expereinced

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              • #8
                Just on the other side of the coin...I just finished my post secondary..my parents helped me out with what I couldn't afford...however because my Father made so much, I was not entitled to OSAP or many student loans... throughout my post secondary I am now in debt over $35,000...I only received $2700 in student loans... I saved up as much money as I could, worked through school, but also had to borrow a lot of money from my parents because of their income.

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                • #9
                  I should add however...I don't believe parents should HAVE to pay, I paid for as much as I could on my own and ever student should have to...those who are handed everything from the parents are often the ones who flunk out and end of going back to school 2-3 times.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                    I should add however...I don't believe parents should HAVE to pay, I paid for as much as I could on my own and ever student should have to...those who are handed everything from the parents are often the ones who flunk out and end of going back to school 2-3 times.
                    I don't know if i agree with that perception. I have many professional friends of different ethnicity, and it seems fairly common for them to be paying for their childrens' education. They require the same result as we do from our daughter - maintaining an above 80% or higher average, and an expectation that frosh parties are limited.

                    Our daughter won't qualify for any grants either, due to our incomes. Any scholarships she receives will be merit earned only.

                    Anyway, I just thought it an interesting thought to post about, since I see on these boards regular advice to others that they can expect 1/3; 1/3; 1/3, when in fact, I don't believe that is the case in certain situations.
                    Last edited by mcdreamy; 01-10-2012, 07:06 PM.
                    Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                      I don't know if i agree with that perception. I have many professional friends of different ethnicity, and it seems fairly common for them to be paying for their childrens' education. They require the same result as we do from our daughter - maintaining an above 80% or higher average, and an expectation that frosh parties are limited.
                      That is a good point. Unfortunately we all base our assumption on the very few cases that actually make it to trial. Who knows if the court would actually order us to pay for the education.

                      Basically I think any offer that considers ability to pay, requires responsiblility of the child, a good grade standing (it is VERY hard to maintain a minimum of 80% in some programs!) and the family history of education payment (how yours was paid for) then it is a good assessment of what is fair.

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                      • #12
                        Mcdreamy, maybe it has only been my experience, but the post secondary institution I went to had 3 different groups of people... those who were there by Second Careers, those who paid for it by themselves (or with little help from their parents) and those who had everything paid for by their parents.

                        I can't count the number of times I heard VAST majority of students come out of classrooms or exams saying "I got 55% that is awesome!"... and trust me they were not joking... I had people in my program who were thrilled with getting 60-65% and those were the ones who had their education paid for by their parents, they were the ones who chose to party instead of study. I was lucky to have found a group of people (who all were on second careers) to study with... we spent many hours studying and preparing for our test, exams and what not...why...for them it was because if they didn't complete the program they had to pay back all the money the government and me because it was my own money or money borrowed...

                        I just feel that students (because most are adults) should be responsible for as much as their education as they can. No reason a student should be able to afford to go out and party every weekend, instead of having a weekend job to help fund some of their education... or no reason instead of spending all the money they earn in the summer of clothes and expensive items, they can't put some of that money away and save... just my opinion.

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                        • #13
                          Having been to trial where post secondary education was one of the matter dealt with, usually and I say usually parents are to pay until the child obtains their "first degree" with full time attendance, but not written in stones
                          and depends on many factors, ie: if child has a learning disability, became sick and/or diagnosed with health issue and the child could not attend school taking longer to complete their education etc...have never heard of one having to pay until the age of 30 unless done voluntarily. Again depending on many factors, education is usually split 1//3, 1/3, 1/3 but not always the case such one parents with a much higher income than the other, an education fund available and used when calculating post secondary education payments, amounts of grants, burseries, scholarships received, the child may not qualify for OSAP due to the parents and the child's income...to name a few!
                          I do not agree that a child do not do as well, flunk school when their education is fully paid by their parents. Personally and speaking from my own experience with all of my siblings education paid for by our parents and suceeding, I beleive it all depends on the child's maturity, study, time and money management!

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                          • #14
                            yes, it does depend on the maturity level of the child. But young adults cannot become mature adults unless they are forced to become responsible.

                            If a student knows that mommy and daddy will be forced to pay an extra year of tuition if they flunk out their first year of school, what is going to make them feel responsible enough to turn down the most awesome invitation to the coolest party ever? and the next one, and the next one? If they have no obligation to pay back the government for the OSAP loans they took out, then why not sleep in and skip class?

                            if there is no consequence, then some children simply wont make the effort. Dont get me wrong, I know many who still did well in school that was completely funded by their parents, but I know just as many who messed up a few sememsters before they realized that universtiy was not just high school with legal alcohol, but actually "real life".

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                            • #15
                              Billie you hit the nail on the head...I did state it was my experience with my post secondary that many who had their education paid for were the ones who flunked out, or close to it...

                              I think it is a fair assumption that many on this board graduated post secondary years ago.. we all know kids/teenagers these days are not raised the way people use to be raised...and I say this because I am only 21 and see it daily with people my age... I am sure many of us can count a number of young adults that are spoiled brats because of the way their parents raised them, of course no parent think their children are spoiled... not saying every young adult is like that but we all know or have seen those who are.

                              Young adults need to have a responsibility, and by being responsible for their own education should be one of those. Parents can help out, but the students should be contributing to their own success.

                              Comment

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