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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #21  
Old 04-11-2018, 06:06 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Im surprised the judge didnt order an update to cs!

Yes your ex is trying to threaten you to get you to back down. In reality, there are a few cases where judges have ordered hockey paid for. What I gather is you didnt get his permission or he didnt respond? Do you have a clause that says permission will not be unreasonably withheld? It could go both ways really. You were wrong for not getting a yes and he was wrong for not agreeing. He also could have rejected the costs through FRO.

Could you offset the cost of daycare against the cost of hockey? For instance say you wont go after daycare arrears because he paid hockey?

I think the judge probably went that way because this case could be settled easily if you both can meet in the middle. I would look at your numbers again. Make him an offer before the next meeting.

I love the challenge the agreement bs. If he had independent legal advice for the agreement then he will have difficulty challenging the terms. Added to that, if the terms are in line with the law on s7 he cant get around it. Thats where I say they are trying to scare you. All of the language they said was intimidation. Take a deep breath and know you did good today.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2018, 08:51 PM
kate331 kate331 is offline
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You would think if he didnt want to pay his portion of the Hockey, he would have done so 3 years ago.
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
You would think if he didnt want to pay his portion of the Hockey, he would have done so 3 years ago.
Hockey is neither special nor an extraordinary expense unless both parents make so much money that it doesn't have any financial impact on the family.

A very small % of children participate in hockey these days due to the cost. So it is very likely a judge will deem the expense to not qualify for S7.

Hockey is not a RIGHT of a child. Its one of the most expensive extracurricular activities you can put a child in. It is for the 1-5% of the population that can afford it.

So if you both make under 50k don't expect a judge to ever order it as an S.7.
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:00 AM
Lemongirl Lemongirl is offline
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I too am surprised that CS wasn't updated, however the courthouse was the busiest I've ever seen it so perhaps the judge was just getting through cases as quickly as possible. As for the hockey, I could care less. If it's that important to his father that he not contribute toward the cost, then I will figure out a way to make it happen on my end so our S7 can play. Why hockey seems to be an issue now for him and hasn't been brought up once over the last 3 years is beyond me. I've sent him the schedules and he's never argued about paying it when FRO advised him. Regardless, this is a minor issue in my opinion. The scare tactics and intimidation will be dealt with as I'm going to retain my lawyer that drafted the agreement, this way she can interpret herself the meaning of anything that is being questioned. It's exhausting going through this, so perhaps having legal support will help the ease of the process. Will definitely send an offer to settle as I'm totally willing to be flexible. I always remind myself that a good agreement is one where neither party is happy with it.
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:28 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Its a flimsy excuse to pull out the agreement like that. Thats why they said get independent legal advice. If you had that, he agreed to it and the matter is closed. Its simply a scare tactic to make you fold. Oh shoot Im going to have to pay him 100 grand? Then I will skip cs arrears!

That would be like my partner trying to renegotiate equalization as the house they lived in worth triple what it was assessed at their divorce. Not a chance.

Hockey is the only grey area and you can offer to put that against your day care expenses but cs needs to be updated period.

Will be interesting to see what your lawyer says.
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:18 PM
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It's been a while and thought I would give an update on where things are currently at. Well, we had our SC and the judge provided their opinion of how they think this will turn out if it goes to trial. Here is what the judge said in a nutshell:
-Child support is the right of the child
-Childcare is considered S7
-The separation agreement does not outline anywhere that his portion of the house was dollar for dollar in exchange for support, therefore no claim can be made toward it.
-In addition the agreement states he was giving me his portion because it was mine to begin with prior to marriage - therefore not his to claim as a credit toward CS.
-As I have proof in writing requesting updated income for the last 3 years ,the arrears come into play as being owed.
-Judge warned the ex that he is putting himself at risk if he continues to push this to trial.
-Judge advised that my calculations were all very reasonable except that I should be deducting the income tax benefit I would receive on the daycare before splitting it proportionately (I didn't know this).

The judge scheduled a TBST (To be spoken to) for mid July so that it would give us some time to try and settle (SC was mid May) based on feedback received. Near the tail end of May i sent an official Offer to Settle to my ex's lawyer to which no response was ever received. The offer was for last 3 years child support arrears, S7 daycare for 2018 only and updated child support based on guidelines. I wiped about $6000 in daycare from 2015-2017 that would have been his portion.

The TBST in July was postponed by my lawyer (yes, i've now had to hire a lawyer) so that it showed good faith that I would like to continue to try and settle. Numerous follow ups were sent with zero response until the day before the September TBST. They replied to my offer to settle (unofficially through email) basically saying he can't afford to pay any arrears plus daycare on top of that. They offered a flat monthly payment of $750 that is to include child support and S7. I declined the offer as I felt that having a flat monthly S7 fee could put me at risk for major health items and education down the road. As well the flat fee didn't cover the proper portion of childcare. Needless to say we attended the TBST the next day (me, my lawyer, and his lawyer-he didn't attend) and a trial date was confirmed for November. Lots of paperwork to fill out now including copies of all S7 receipts going back three years and proof of requesting tax information every year. I have everything organized in a folder and put a spreadsheet together that keeps the calculations clean and easy to understand. My lawyer is drafting up the factum for me as I was advised those are quite difficult to write unless you know the laws. So now the offer is off the table and I was told to ask for everything based on my original request. Apparently if the judge makes a ruling that's in my favour and is worse off than my offer to settle for the ex, then I could be awarded costs.
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  #27  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:25 PM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Wow this is moving along. I think your ex is nuts. He is going to have to pay all of it...




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  #28  
Old 09-20-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemongirl View Post
They offered a flat monthly payment of $750 that is to include child support and S7. I declined the offer as I felt that having a flat monthly S7 fee could put me at risk for major health items and education down the road.

I'm not sure how much CS is without the S7 component, so it is unclear how generous that $750 is. That said, the offer has some value, in that a fixed amount can be collected by maintenance enforcement agencies. I would word it as (eg.) "$600 for table CS, and $150 for S7 expenses" or whatever the actual split really is.


Maybe agree to the $750, with a "balancing" to be done at the end of the year, and either you pay him or he pays you the difference.


Collecting S7 can be a real pain. Getting 80% of what you deserve is not too shabby. Figure out how many lawyer hours it will take to get the difference.
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  #29  
Old 09-22-2018, 10:25 AM
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The split would be 550 CS and 200 toward daycare which i advised them I was fine with, however it leaves 17000 in arrears outstanding they want me to completely wave plus any other S7 costs I pay 100 percent of. I tried to work with their offer in terms of balancing at the end of the year but they would not compromise on anything. It was all or none so I was forced to decline and have a trial date set.
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  #30  
Old 09-22-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemongirl View Post
The split would be 550 CS and 200 toward daycare which i advised them I was fine with, however it leaves 17000 in arrears outstanding they want me to completely wave plus any other S7 costs I pay 100 percent of. I tried to work with their offer in terms of balancing at the end of the year but they would not compromise on anything. It was all or none so I was forced to decline and have a trial date set.
If you are going to trial, then make a severable offer ASAP.

A) 550 CS
B) 200 S7 daycare costs
C) 30%-70% split for S7 costs (or whatever your percentage is, offer slightly better than the real split. So if it was really 30-70 then offer 35-65)
D) 14,000 in arrears (like part C, always good to undershoot a little on these offers)


They will likely accept A and B, you go to court for C and D. Worst comes to worst, you at least have your enforceable $200 a month.

If they are dumb enough to reject every part of your severable offer, then they almost certainly get nailed for costs. The costs recovery starts from the day they receive that offer, which is why I suggest that you send it ASAP.
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