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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2016, 09:56 AM
YOW YOW is offline
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Default What is self-sufficient

What is the definition of "self-sufficient" and how do you prove that someone is self-sufficient (which would cause spousal support to end).

How long does a person have to become self-sufficient.


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The Wife agrees that she has an obligation and will take all reasonable steps to become self-sufficient at the earliest possible time taking into consideration her childcare responsibilities.
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:01 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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What is the definition of "self-sufficient" and how do you prove that someone is self-sufficient (which would cause spousal support to end).
It is a subjective statement. It really doesn't mean much.

The order/agreement should have defined it better. For example: An income within 10% range (+ or -) of the median income for Canadians as defined by Statistics Canada. It also should have specific dates when the evaluation should take place by.

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How long does a person have to become self-sufficient.
Based on what you provided in your quote... As much time as they like really. Again, it is poorly worded. Punch the lawyer in the nose who wrote that.

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The Wife agrees that she has an obligation and will take all reasonable steps to become self-sufficient at the earliest possible time taking into consideration her childcare responsibilities.
All subjective drivel that should never see an order or agreement. Punch the lawyer.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:15 AM
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Grrrrr I remember telling my lawyer that this was too vague and it needed some definition.

If someone has a really good lawyer they would recommend, please feel free to PM me.
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:18 AM
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Grrrrr I remember telling my lawyer that this was too vague and it needed some definition.

If someone has a really good lawyer they would recommend, please feel free to PM me.
How much you willing to spend. Really good lawyers in my opinion bill 680+ an hour.
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:24 AM
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I just want results really. And this persons info would go in my back pocket for now. I'd also like to have my SA reviewed and get their opinion on it sometime, which would likely be the first thing I'd do.
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:55 AM
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I do have an end date specified for my spousal support obligations though... so at least there is that.
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:21 AM
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I do have an end date specified for my spousal support obligations though... so at least there is that.
That is when it should be reviewed and the easiest time to bring the matter back to court.
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:35 AM
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The paragraph that follows says that after such date we are both deemed to be self sufficient and this cannot be changed by any court anywhere (I am of course paraphrasing... but several statements made to reinforce that after such date, no more spousal support... end of discussion, final answer.)

Does the support recipient have any obligations to show progress to becoming self-sufficient (improving their financial position)? If they have not shown any progress in a few years, is that enough grounds to have the support entitlement questioned?

What if the recipient chooses to stay in a field of work where pay is limited? By choosing to stay in a pay restricted field, they are intentionally preventing themselves from meeting an obligation, and the support entitlement should be revoked. Thoughts on that?
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:21 PM
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Does the support recipient have any obligations to show progress to becoming self-sufficient (improving their financial position?
Well, if what you have disclosed about the agreement is truthful... Then by the date specified that they are to be self sufficient they better be... Or they are going to be in trouble.

Your challenge is that you agreed to terms that don't define any requirements to actually require the other party to do anything about their situation from the date of agreement to the final "self sufficiency date" stated. So you have no recourse.

Be thankful that you have a termination date. But, it can always be contested... Even if it says in the agreement. Just be warned.
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Be thankful that you have a termination date. But, it can always be contested... Even if it says in the agreement. Just be warned.

If the terms about the termination date can be contested, doesn't the same hold true about the lack of clarity of "self-sufficient"? Argue that she is, and then if its ruled that it is not, request specific criteria.

I suppose anything can be contested if you are willing to pay the legal fees.
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