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  • Nuking goodwill

    My ex and I are on fairly good terms right now. We are friendly and helpful to each other. Hell, I am cat sitting for her while she and my daughter go on a cruise for March Break. Things have come a long way from 3-4 years ago.

    Anyway, my daughter is in competitive dance. The monthly cost is $260 which we split as our incomes are comparative. My daughter has a competition coming up in a few weeks about 45 minutes from each of our houses. Her first routine is fairly early, being just after 9am. My ex, wanting to maximize her time to get daughter ready, booked a hotel room for the night. I knew she was going to, but what I didn't expect was for her to ask me to cover 1/2 of our daughters portion. It is less than $30.

    As of right now, I pay over $600 a month for our one child. Starting in March, it jumps to over $700 due to a new job.

    I know this ~$30 is not a s7 expense. I pay more then enough in support, notwithstanding it isn't 100% necessary (she could get up and out early, but I do understand doing that isn't ideal). The amount won't affect me, but it is kind of annoying as she doesn't understand what "extraordinary expenses" are. IMO, she needs to know that this isn't something I have to cover as she receives more than enough in C/S and her income is close to what I make.

    If I do anything but pay, all the goodwill I have built up over time will get nuked. My ex doesn't like it when people don't agree with her. She is the type to over react. Is less than $30 worth losing most of the goodwill you have built up over the course of years? It is essentially drawing a line in the sand which the ex will not welcome.....

  • #2
    I'd approach it from a more a more "Do you think this is really an S7 expense" or offer to pay it this time and get an agreement (i.e: nothing under 100$) for next time...

    Comment


    • #3
      Personally I would just pay it as it is most certainly for your daughter.

      When paying it I would make it very clear that next time she does not inform or get consent on a similar issue you won't be paying.

      Comment


      • #4
        Is she asking for you to cover 1/2 of daughter's hotel portion? I would just respond "I am not sure that the hotel is completely necessary, though I can understand your desire to save a bit of time in the morning. Perhaps this is something you can cover this time? Thanks, HD"

        Try not stating "you refuse to pay", or it's "her responsibility" - things that are likely to trigger a response.

        After the event, that would be a good time to broach the subject of what is and is not Section 7, and try to come to some consensus.

        Congrats, btw, on coming to some peace with your ex.

        Good luck with this subject, though. It's a tough one - the $30 isn't worth arguing over, but you have to gently draw the line somewhere.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't know...I see it as a dance expense. Dance has previously been determined to qualify as a section 7 expense. Therefore you pay half. Your ex probably assumed that if you objected, you would have brought it up at the point that she told you she was going to book a hotel room. She probably believes she is suitably honouring the agreement by only making you cover half the daughter's portion, and not half the entire hotel bill.

          Is there a history of her doing this or is this the first time? What about other incidental dance expenses like costume parts or hair accessories or lunch out with the other girls? How have those historically been handled?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rioe View Post
            I don't know...I see it as a dance expense. Dance has previously been determined to qualify as a section 7 expense. Therefore you pay half.
            I still pay dance like an s7 expense, but I am not sure it would qualify as "extraordinary expense" any more considering our combined incomes are close to $150k.

            She probably believes she is suitably honouring the agreement by only making you cover half the daughter's portion, and not half the entire hotel bill.
            I wouldn't pay for the entire bill. I am not obligated to pay for ex to stay and the ex knows this.

            Is there a history of her doing this or is this the first time?
            Last year my daughter made it to the nationals in the US. The cost of the one week stay and flight was $3000. I agreed to pay 1/2 of my daughters costs. This is the only other similar instance, but as you can see, the costs are vastly different ($3000 vs $100 totals).

            What about other incidental dance expenses like costume parts or hair accessories or lunch out with the other girls? How have those historically been handled?
            Accessories (bling, makeup, dance jumpsuit) were purchased at the beginning and then tallied all up and we split them. Normally it is $200+. Costumes are expensive, about $300x3 so s7 IMO. Lunch out, that is her dime and she's never asked likely knowing I would say my c/s covers food for the kid.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by blinkandimgone
              Did she ask you to pay half the cost for the kid's trip to mexico?
              Nope. The ex knows that her vacations with our daughter are on her dime. She's gone on enough of them (Disney x3, Disney cruise x2, regular cruise x1).

              Comment


              • #8
                I would just pay it. It's dicey as to whether this is a dance-related expense or not - I can see arguments either way. The key thing here is that it sounds like your ex is pretty good about boundaries - she isn't trying to get you to pay for things which are clearly not S7, like meals out with kidlet or her share of the hotel - so you don't have a thin-edge-of-the-wedge situation in which any concession on your part will lead to more demands. I can see how someone could in good faith believe this to be S7, just as I can see how someone could in equally good faith believe that it is not.

                It doesn't sound like paying it will lead to any negative consequences other than your being $30 out of pocket, which seems like an acceptable loss for the sake of maintaining a good relationship with the ex.

                As ByMyself said, congrats on getting to that good relationship!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hammer -

                  I can't help but note that you feel like you're damaging the goodwill by questioning payment of the expense, whatever it is. Is it not the other side damaging the otherwise cordial relationship by being so petty about the expense?

                  As the mom, receiver of S7 expenses (well, ordered to receive, I don't actually receive), the $30 wouldn't be worth the time or potential anxiety to even ask for, especially since you're cooperative on the rest.

                  I agree that $30 isn't worth the hassle and drama - to either of you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For $30???

                    The answer seems clear to me...

                    BURN THE WORLD DOWN!!

                    Ha! Nope. Pay it. Move on.

                    Answer this, would you have been willing to pay $30 bucks to avoid all that nastiness in the beginning?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Understanding now that your daughter has gone to true dance competitions in the past, and you have split the accommodation expense then - you shouldn't really be questioning it now. Yes, you "got lucky" and it isn't far away this time - but if it was - you likely would be paying half her accommodation anyhow.

                      Reading from the OP's past posts - I think HD knew the answer anyway. This sounds like a bit more of a vent than anything.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd pay the 30 bucks and try to sell the cat for $45.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My gut reaction would be that you ABSOLUTELY shouldn't pay this ....

                          I can only go by "my" sense of morals ... my agreement states that the boys' are in hockey (house-league) ... ex is to pay his proportionate share UP TO a maximum of $500/yr per child. In all their years of playing, I assumed that to be registration fee's and equipment (some years there was no equipment needed, other years, several pieces needed replacing). Ex was a-ok with this as well, and there's been no issue.

                          Every year, each child has always been in a minimum of 1 "away" tournament. My husband & I have always been the one's who took them. We paid hotel, tournament fee (usually approx. $50-$100) and all their meals for the weekend. I'd never DREAM to ask ex to contribute to this. We make it a weekend away. It usually runs us close to $700 for the weekend. While yes, technically it's hockey related & going by your wife's thinking, I should be taking that cost and dividing it to figure out the "childs share", I don't feel that's correct ... it's something I am doing alone with the boys' (as ex has never offered or agreed to take them). The cost is (and should be, IMO) mine alone to bear.

                          My years of "family law" however, tell me, maybe it's just better to suck it up and pay the $30 for the sake of peace.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                            My ex and I are on fairly good terms right now. We are friendly and helpful to each other. Hell, I am cat sitting for her while she and my daughter go on a cruise for March Break. Things have come a long way from 3-4 years ago.

                            Anyway, my daughter is in competitive dance. The monthly cost is $260 which we split as our incomes are comparative. My daughter has a competition coming up in a few weeks about 45 minutes from each of our houses. Her first routine is fairly early, being just after 9am. My ex, wanting to maximize her time to get daughter ready, booked a hotel room for the night. I knew she was going to, but what I didn't expect was for her to ask me to cover 1/2 of our daughters portion. It is less than $30.

                            As of right now, I pay over $600 a month for our one child. Starting in March, it jumps to over $700 due to a new job.

                            I know this ~$30 is not a s7 expense. I pay more then enough in support, notwithstanding it isn't 100% necessary (she could get up and out early, but I do understand doing that isn't ideal). The amount won't affect me, but it is kind of annoying as she doesn't understand what "extraordinary expenses" are. IMO, she needs to know that this isn't something I have to cover as she receives more than enough in C/S and her income is close to what I make.

                            If I do anything but pay, all the goodwill I have built up over time will get nuked. My ex doesn't like it when people don't agree with her. She is the type to over react. Is less than $30 worth losing most of the goodwill you have built up over the course of years? It is essentially drawing a line in the sand which the ex will not welcome.....
                            Originally posted by ByMyself View Post

                            Reading from the OP's past posts - I think HD knew the answer anyway. This sounds like a bit more of a vent than anything.
                            precisely.

                            Originally posted by DunnMom View Post
                            My gut reaction would be that you ABSOLUTELY shouldn't pay this ....
                            That would be my first thought too. However, in hindsight, my 'first thought' often results in negative consequence.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is not really goodwill if your hold upon it is so tenuous.

                              HD,
                              Do you feel you owe your ex something that still lingers?

                              Comment

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