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OCL Recommendations - What to do now?

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  • #46
    Thanks for your response involveddad75

    Well I'm not sure you have or haven't, the forum states you joined in May 2017.

    I would just look through the forum as a nonmember and decided to join to get some insight from people with experience.

    1. Why are you in supervised access? Was this ordered? or did you volenteer for it.


    My ex decided that was going to be the way it was. It was never ordered. My ex used previous issues of anxiety to say im not safe and cant be trusted. I have supporting documents from my family doctor and health clinician stating i am in good health. I did not volunteer for it, I have made my position that i want to be a parent in my daughters life and have held the stance of shared parenting.

    2. Are you the applicant (meaning your the moving party) or are you the respondent (didn't do anything about changing things until you were served)


    I am the Applicant.

    3. What jurisdiction are in? Which court house?

    KW. Kitchener court house.

    4. Disputing the OCL?

    Yes. My lawyer and i stepped out shortly after the OCL discloure meeting and i told her i will intend on disputing. She agreed that it was one sided. Also didnt agree that it will be left up to the parties after 6 months on what to do. My lawyer feels it will just bring us back to court.

    6. Take parenting classes,

    I have signed up to an online one (Impulse just to get started) as well as a 4 week certificate in person program also a parenting workshop. I intend on continuing to take the parenting workshops or anything else that can be offered through the service.

    7. Change your schedule now, not on the promise of change


    Ive spoken with a family memeber who has advised the same. My lawyer thinks that it may look like i have had the oppurtunity to spend more time with my daughter but chosen not to by having my schedule remain the same. Not the case since her mother has kept her from me. My lawyer suggested, which my employer has agreed to, is get a letter of endorsement stating i can change schedule when needed.

    Lastly before I head back to work. Become your own advocate, and learn law. Lawyers are expensive and they sometimes complicate things to cost you more money. Drive the matter forward towards your goals.


    Seems like the position that i am in now. Her lawyer has been doing well at knit picking every little detail. They continue to go about mental health and appear to try to get me to display signs, which never happens.




    Until then Ill have to do everything i can and see what the OCL report says.
    Speak to date is may 18.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by involveddad75 View Post
      If you need to dispute the OCL, the only place to do that is at trial. It's the only place where evidence of the OCL report is tested. That is the be all and end all. Only at trial is evidence tested. Until then it is a recommendation.
      Not necessarily true. After my OCL disclosure meeting and I received the report I disputed the report with the appropriate documents within a month of receiving the report.

      I did so just in time for a motion to get rid of supervised access and increase access. My motion judge dismissed all OCL crap right away....got rid of supervised and gave me my daughter back almost 50/50. (I should've entered the motion requesting 50/50). Boom ... OCL report gone. So you don't have to wait for trial.

      I like pretty much everything else involveddad has said here though. I'm still a bit confused on some of your issues also so try to answer all of your q's.

      Involved dad......I think the OP just kind of mistakenly allowed his ex to dictate what happened in the beginning, being unaware of his rights like many peeps do when this situation arises. She said supervised...he nodded and did it pissed off...that type of thing.

      Comment


      • #48
        1. No abuse
        2. No addictions
        3. Ability to parent unaffected
        4. Mom wanted to end relationship ..but oops...ended parent relationship too
        5. False allegations to stop the tiny access he had
        6. Dad's taking parenting course, first aid, etc
        7. Dad has no criminal record
        8. No CAS involvement or domestic stuff EVER
        9. Dad hoped OCL would be the voice of the child but got screwed (normal)
        10. Dad respects moms role in child's life .. favor not returned by mom
        11. This is a false status quo created by a dirty gatekeeper. I hate it!!

        Dad will go to a motion and ask for graduated 50/50 and nothing less. If mom disagrees dad will win at trial.

        Comment


        • #49
          1. No abuse
          2. No addictions
          3. Ability to parent unaffected
          4. Mom wanted to end relationship ..but oops...ended parent relationship too
          5. False allegations to stop the tiny access he had
          6. Dad's taking parenting course, first aid, etc
          7. Dad has no criminal record
          8. No CAS involvement or domestic stuff EVER
          9. Dad hoped OCL would be the voice of the child but got screwed (normal)
          10. Dad respects moms role in child's life .. favor not returned by mom
          11. This is a false status quo created by a dirty gatekeeper. I hate it!!


          All this is pretty bang on. Ive been asked at time what i did to derserve this...responded nothing...still with uttering of ahh well you must of done something.

          They have held on to the mental health stuff since it started even after providing documents. "Well what if it happens again" Ive been to my family doctor and had a detailed note written up that he has seen no concerns in my health....regardless....still on the mental health thing.

          Time was taken away from 12 hours of supervised to eventually 3. There were issues so petty they are laughable that caused the time to go down.
          Hiring lawyers only fueled the situation. Small disagreements have been spinned into me having mental breakdowns.

          Comment


          • #50
            Can I ask how much it would likely be going to trial with a lawyer?
            Would anyone recommend me representing mysel?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Dad1985 View Post
              Can I ask how much it would likely be going to trial with a lawyer?
              Trial like this is no less than 15 days.

              It takes 1 day of prep for every 3 days in court. That is 20 days of legal billing + other stuff (15% of total)

              Lets say your lawyer costs 350.

              ((350 (rate) * 1.13 (tax))*7.5 (hours) *20(days)) *1.20 (disbursements) = 71,190

              So, you are looking at about $71,190++ in legal costs at 350 an hour.

              Originally posted by Dad1985 View Post
              Would anyone recommend me representing mysel?
              No. Based on the questions you are asking here you are not prepared to do so.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                Trial like this is no less than 15 days.

                It takes 1 day of prep for every 3 days in court. That is 20 days of legal billing + other stuff (15% of total)

                Lets say your lawyer costs 350.

                ((350 (rate) * 1.13 (tax))*7.5 (hours) *20(days)) *1.20 (disbursements) = 71,190

                So, you are looking at about $71,190++ in legal costs at 350 an hour.



                No. Based on the questions you are asking here you are not prepared to do so.

                A trial requiring to dispute an OCL report takes this long is what you are suggesting? Where would I get $71,000 from ? What happens if you run out of money in the middle of your trial ?

                Comment


                • #53
                  I disputed a OCL report at my family court trial. My ex spent $80,000, $60,000 was just for trial. It lasted 14 days.

                  These numbers are not that far off. I was successful, but as Tayken has indicated the questions you are asking show that you are not prepared to take this on at this time. I studied from the time I filed and became the applicant to the time we finished trial and I was still learning and making mistakes at trial and that was 1 1/2 years in length from Application to Trial.

                  I have always said you are far better to represent yourself in family court as the judge gets to know you, and not you through your lawyer. But you have to understand the basic of the process.

                  A good starting point it to read each of the pieces of legislation in it's entirety.
                  1. The family law rules
                  2. The children's law reform act.
                  3. The divorce Act
                  4. The rules of civil procedure
                  5. The court of justice Act

                  Some of these documents are over 400 pages each, and this is just to understand the basics.

                  Then you need to read the leading case law on various issues you will be dealing with.
                  1. Mobility
                  2. Custody
                  3. Access
                  4. BIOC
                  5. OCL / Private assessments.
                  etc. etc. etc.

                  If you don't understand what makes a case a leading case then you will need to understand how jurisprudence created.

                  Family law is like a rabbit hole. The deeper you go the more you figure out how much there is that you don't know.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by trinton View Post
                    A trial requiring to dispute an OCL report takes this long is what you are suggesting?
                    Yes. See comments from ID75 on his personal experience and costs. These are complex matters when OCL is involved.

                    Originally posted by trinton View Post
                    Where would I get $71,000 from?
                    From your savings account if you are wealthy. From your employment income if you have a really good job. From family members, if you have a rich family.

                    Originally posted by trinton View Post
                    What happens if you run out of money in the middle of your trial?
                    Your lawyer will ask for a retainer for the full amount prior to trial. This is because they can't quit in the middle of the trial. So, they are going to ask for payment up-front.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      No. Based on the questions you are asking here you are not prepared to do so.

                      agreed. Im by no means looking to lose access with my daughter as well.

                      Will the judge try at the settlement conference to keep us out of trial?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Dad1985 View Post
                        Will the judge try at the settlement conference to keep us out of trial?
                        As I learned, if the opposing party is not willing to settle or make sacrifices, the judge has no ability to 'keep you out of trial'. They are there to offer advice and as experienced mediators.

                        1st SC: never saw a judge, just got an order for OCL
                        2nd SC: Judge recommended a 50/50 visitation above what OCL recommended. Then flipped on her decision and told me to accept 2 out of 3 weekends and be happy with that.
                        TMC judge: made us wait all day, then sent it to trial after a 10 minute talk with lawyers only.

                        Now I'm prepping for trial over a weekday overnight that she refuses that I be allowed to have.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          What did OCL recommend?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            OCL recommended a reduction from current week about to 2 out of 3 weekends and 1 weeknight. I made her an offer to match the one she had made but with less grey areas (S7, holidays, summer access etc) and she refused stating that the weekday overnight would be too hard for the kids.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Can I ask what ocl based this on?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                1. Domestic violence - Ex claims I was verbally abusive, no proof.
                                2. Living situation - My kids had bunk beds in the living room. I was living in a one bedroom apartment at my mothers at the time.
                                3. Wifes claims that my son needs to be medicated and I refuse.

                                In both the childrens and my ex's interviews with OCL, all three stated the kids are healthy, happy and their are no concerns. The kids both stated they want things to stay the same. (S was almost 11 at the time and D was 9)

                                As for my 35 pg dispute, they sat on it for several months until after SC #2 and replied that even thought the clinician didn't speak with the family doctor or the teachers, they would support her decision.

                                Comment

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