Dealing with difficult judges--article

[annapurna66]

I am posting this article for others to read who might also find it helpful. It is written by Carole Curtis (family law lawyer now judge). I am a SRL and about to embark on my own long motion. As SRL's our experience with judges is limited...this article helps to give you a bit of a heads up on how to navigate around a "difficult" judge. I think we could all use any hints we can get.


http://www.practicepro.ca/practice/p...arolCurtis.pdf

[FWB]

@annapurna66.......

Thanks for the pdf doc...

I like this excerpt from the doc..

Never assume the judge has read the material, and never ask

A recent question (in the last 10 years) frequently asked: “has your honour
had an opportunity to review the material”? Why would you ever ask that question? Do not ask that question. All that does is embarrass the judge. So you start off on entirely the wrong foot. Was that what you intended? Also, it may prompt the judge to answer on the record that she has not read the material, and that may create a record not suited to your client’s needs.

Start your submissions as though the judge has not read the material. The judge who has read the material will tell you

Am sorry, say what now...is this a joke, kinda like a Surgeon that doesn't like operating?

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Family law is difficult area (particularly child protection law, which is often in a long and complicated statute). Family law is a narrow area of law with a great deal of jurisprudence, in a fast-changing environment

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[Janibel]

I was in court earlier this month, we had prepared stacks of documents and photos - the judge did not look at any of it. We won our case, but had I been on the losing team I would have been very upset.

I was amazed at how little time the judge spent on the case. Both the prosecutor and the defense lawyer had very little chance to say much in the the way of presenting the issues. It was our spoken testimony's that seemed to interest the judge if anything?

[arabian]

Thanks annapurna66 - I've forwarded this on to my lawyer.

[arabian]

I believe you usually required to have your documentation filed a few weeks or a month prior to the hearing. During this time the judge MAY review the file.

Last June in court the judge sat down and said "I haven't had time to review this file" (ours of course a lengthy matter). I was pretty disappointed as we had waited so many months for the matter to be dealt with. My lawyer seemed unconcerned. Two court dates prior to this one a different judge asked if we would be interested in having him as our case management judge. He said "I want this case." I was pretty pleased by that statement but my lawyer didn't respond to the judge. Instead my lawyer went through the proper process of formally requesting a case management judge. We ended up with a judge that I didn't like but my lawyer is pleased. All in all it seems to have worked out for us. My ex is totally pissed that we have a case management judge at all. And yes, I do believe the judge has now read my file. My lawyer continues to think the judge is good so I have to defer to his experience and judgemnet in the matter.

[Serene]

Most times you don't even get to know who the judge is until you arrive at court.

Quite honestly, most judges never read their material and I would bet most have their mind made up on what they are going to say and do before they even open the court. I say this because there are so many cookie cutter statements that are said that it is obvious that they don't know the families they are talking about. Read my thread about the trial I posted last week for examples.

[Janibel]

Most times you don't even get to know who the judge is until you arrive at court.

Quite honestly, most judges never read their material and I would bet most have their mind made up on what they are going to say and do before they even open the court. I say this because there are so many cookie cutter statements that are said that it is obvious that they don't know the families they are talking about. Read my thread about the trial I posted last week for examples.

I'd have to agree with you on this - the judge at our trial seemed to have a predetermined decision from the get go, he hardly looked at documents from either side. We where rushed in and out of the courtroom. Basically it was a matter of signing the paperwork and on to the next case ...

[MS Mom]

Most times you don't even get to know who the judge is until you arrive at court.

Quite honestly, most judges never read their material and I would bet most have their mind made up on what they are going to say and do before they even open the court. I say this because there are so many cookie cutter statements that are said that it is obvious that they don't know the families they are talking about. Read my thread about the trial I posted last week for examples.

I agree Serene.

How is it that they don't really have to do their job? I can only imagine what wrath I'd bear if I showed up to a training session unprepared to train.

I find it very problematic that these judges - who are just people - are "incapable" of making errors. And, if they do make an error - its up to the people who were wronged with this error to do something about it - by form of appeal, etc.

The rest of us just get fired from our jobs for this reason.

They were all lawyers once. Don't they remember the days when they were in front of an unprepared judge and how frustrating and problematic that is for everyone involved?

[Rioe]

I find this completely astounding and disturbing. In my line of work, a facet of law, no file goes before the decision-makers until it is absolutely complete and ready. If deadlines are not met and delays are necessary, the appropriate people have consequences. The decision-makers then read the file extremely thoroughly before meeting with the people involved and making the decision.

To have a system set up to do the complete opposite, having decision-makers see the individuals without even ensuring all is complete and reading the documentation thoroughly first seems completely unconscionable to me.

The family law system needs an overhaul, but maybe not only in the areas previously discussed.

[FWB]

I am sure those that have benefited from this farce in the family law system, and continue to do so.....based on presumptions by judges, aren't complaining one iota.

The family law system needs an overhaul

A bit of understatement innit?...Probably won't happen in our lifetime

[Mess]

I am sure those that have benefited from this farce in the family law system, and continue to do so.....based on presumptions by judges, aren't complaining one iota.



A bit of understatement innit?...Probably won't happen in our lifetime

Because no one has a moral compass, we are all just sociopaths, and none of us puts anyone else as an equal priority.

Actually, I think you are projecting.

[Janibel]

If anything I see it getting worse in the future - as more and more litigants are added to an already 'constipated' system. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is justice or 'best interest of the children'... it's a puppy-mill churning out cases by the truck load every single day! We are case numbers, nothing more.

I'd like to think that at some time in the future people will wake up and cooperative litigation alternatives will replace this antiquated system? Something like organic family gardens for those sick and tired of eating genetically modified garbage lol!

[arabian]

My lawyer just emailed me back and said that he found the article to be an interesting read and went on to say he sees too many lawyers in family practice who don't follow this [article's] advice.

I think the article is important and people should read it over before they hire a lawyer and then discuss it with the potential lawyer they are considering hiring.

[Mess]

Well.....with that being said



But not all case numbers are created equal.....there is inequality

Yes, another usefull contribution with factual support for an interpretation of law.

[MS Mom]

I think the article is very informative for the self-repper.

It would not of occurred to me to go into any courtroom with a judge and expect them to have NOT READ the materials they're to "judge" on.

How bloody naïve of me?