Dealing with difficult judges--article

[Serene]

I think the article is very informative for the self-repper.

It would not of occurred to me to go into any courtroom with a judge and expect them to have NOT READ the materials they're to "judge" on.

How bloody naïve of me?

Makes me wonder why we need to prepare all that paperwork when no one reads it...

But it also brings to mind why I think this happens: Many people in their legal pursuits write a whole bunch of irrelevant crap that a judge would have to weed through. I would bet this pisses off a judge and also gives a glimpse of what is going on and with whom in a case... I don't think a judge really cares whose socks a kid wears or if they wear blue or grey underwear but I've seen pages of this stuff in affidavits and I question the value of it in anyone's case, regardless if they are Applicant or Respondent. And I have to wonder what it costs to prepare documents no one reads or no one cares about.

[Janibel]

I think the article is very informative for the self-repper.

It would not of occurred to me to go into any courtroom with a judge and expect them to have NOT READ the materials they're to "judge" on.

How bloody naïve of me?

Before I got involved in the legal system, I was all geared up with learning jurisprudence and organizing affidavits and other documents. I feel it was a waste of time. The above article tells it like it really is, as far as what I have experienced so far.

They say that there is no room for drama in court, I'd go further and say there is no room for your detailed information. The judge gives it a quick looking over, if at all - probably asks a few basic questions to each lawyer and then it's a copy n' paste decision ...

[arabian]

At the time of our BJDR the judge had indeed studied our case. The judge was up-to-speed on everything that had been submitted 30 days prior by both sides. The judge asked questions and we were able to provide documentation or answers to anything requested.

Perhaps the fact that the whole day was booked with the judge was what made the difference and that the decision expected from the judge would be final and binding?

All in all I thought the process was effective. No one could stall, no one could ask for an adjournment. We were all there with the intent on resolving matters once and for all.

[FWB]

I feel it was a waste of time.

Why so...you got the result you were hoping for didn't ya?

Yes this article might have unraveled what actually goes on in the legal domain with regards to Judges and the statement briefs, it should not come as a complete shock that "Judges don't take their time to read through all the stuff filed usually 7 days prior.

I know the last time I was in court, the Judge was 45mins late coming out...the clerks kept going into the back room, and then will come back to say they are reading it still

When they eventually came out...you can tell that the material hadn't been read in depth, and I guess this is where it helped outlining the issues and facts in an easy to follow manner

[Pursuinghappiness]

Makes me wonder why we need to prepare all that paperwork when no one reads it...

I can actually say that I haven't had that experience.

I would say that the last two judges that I had skimmed the material rather than read it in depth but they were familiar when we went in.

The first motions judge that I had (had her for 3 motions) not only read through our affidavits but also read through our depositions to the point where she had highlighted a page out of it because my ex's lawyer often spoke for my ex during the deposition...at one point, when my lawyer asked him for to supply a paystub as an undertaking, my ex's (male right's) attorney spoke for my ex and told her "no" that a paystub wasn't necessary.

Apparently the judge got extremely ticked off upon reading that in the transcript and seriously let my ex's lawyer have it...telling him that if he doesn't know that judges require paystubs to calculate support than he needs to go back to law school.

She was so well-versed on our file that the lawyers got asked more questions than they did explaining. She was extremely competent.

I think I'm in an area of Ontario that has less congestion through the system though because I notice that the lead-time to go to court is much shorter than forum posters that live in big cities have to deal with. I wonder if having less backlog allows the judges to more thoroughly review the material prior to the proceedings.

[Janibel]

Why so...you got the result you were hoping for didn't ya?

Going to court wasn't a waste of time - but all the documents and micro-managing probably was. Basically, what won the case was the police report and both our testimony in front of the judge.

I still feel that the honorable justice arrived with a preconceived ruling, and that should translate as a warning to those of us who feel the need to prepare mountains of 'evidence' to show to the judge - chances are most of it will be ignored.

[Janibel]

I think I'm in an area of Ontario that has less congestion through the system though because I notice that the lead-time to go to court is much shorter than forum posters that live in big cities have to deal with. I wonder if having less backlog allows the judges to more thoroughly review the material prior to the proceedings.

No doubt, that would have a lot to do with it. In my area things are seriously back-logged so it's only logical that the Judge would have to go on the basic bare-bones info simply to get through the day efficiently?

[arabian]

The thing that we often forget is that not only do judges get the affidavits and applications but they are also often handed a ream of case law referenced in the pleadings. Lots and lots of things to wade through. I certainly don't envy their profession.

[Janibel]

The thing that we often forget is that not only do judges get the affidavits and applications but they are also often handed a ream of case law referenced in the pleadings. Lots and lots of things to wade through. I certainly don't envy their profession.

I always had a sick curiosity as to what actually goes on in a Judge's private chambers

[Pursuinghappiness]

I always had a sick curiosity as to what actually goes on in a Judge's private chambers

I think I'm worse cause I'm always speculating on whether or not they're going commando under the robe.

[arabian]

No different than any other private office. Desk, chairs... Some have anti-rooms with adjoining meeting rooms. Nothing spectacular.

[Janibel]

I think I'm worse cause I'm always speculating on whether or not they're going commando under the robe.

Hahahaha! I guess the mind does tend to wander on silly things, when we are sitting in court waiting for something to happen .... it is a very awkward environment!

[FWB]

In the same light as the comments made thus far

I always had a sick curiosity as to what actually goes on in a Judge's private chambers

Janibel....now why would you be thinking such things?

Lmao, thanx for that one

Yes....for unleashing that thought into our heads now. I bet you won't be able to look at a judge the same way now would ya?

[Links17]

I agree to a certain extent that judges make a decision based on hearing the current circumstance but they will still listen to everything to make sure there is nothing that contradicts their original hypothesis. They have biases but it isn't so cookie cutter and they actually change quite frequently.

I *think* it is important in submitting evidence is that you can later perhaps use it as a basis for appeal if the judge made a decision that is clearly in contradiction to what you filed in evidence. (actually curious if this constitutes missapprehension of the facts)

[MS Mom]

No different than any other private office. Desk, chairs... Some have anti-rooms with adjoining meeting rooms. Nothing spectacular.

I worked at a new Mega-Courthouse build recently.

In the new courthouse the judge's have their own bathrooms in their chambers. They also have their own set of elevators, doors and corridors so they don't have to co-mingle with the general public. Their desks are equipped with multiple computers (I've never seen a judge use a computer ??) and safety features such as panic buttons. The clerk's desk are similarly equipped.

The judge I had didn't wear a robe. My husband thought it unusual. I just thought it unusual that she was wearing the exact same jacket that she was wearing at my previous settlement conference two years ago.