Men/Father's right's support groups.

[Berner_Faith]

I don't think there is much more advice anyone can offer you. From where you stand he is very unreasonable, which we can only beleive because thats what you state, but if this is the case, get a voice recorder of your own and tape all your conversations...better yet, keep all conversations via email, that way you have a paper trail. Make your offers to meet half way via email, then when he declines you have proof that you made an attempt. With the voice recorder you then have proof he turns a civil conversation into a nasty one.

Things will not be easy and you can't force him to get counselling. Its great you and your children are in counselling, but you have to let him deal with his own demons on his own. As hard as it is, bite your tongue and be the nice one. Find a friend you can vent to so you don't have to let your frustration out on him...as I have always said it takes two to fight...he can't fight with himself so if you are nice and civil everytime you are forced to communicated, he can keep complaining but the only one listening will be himself.

[LostFather]

He has ask? Would you then say that you should have to ask or is it just automatic for mom's access and dads need to ask for equal access? Court order say they go, they go, you could be in contempt for enabling them to stay with you. As I said. When your daughter went to live at dads...how did u feel?...as you described it, He was the manipulator. But you condone the actions and even support it when its reversed.

As fAr as history goes. I thought you were looking for advice. You don't seem to mind the advice of supporters...but not of someone that doesn't...again interesting.

I didn't know you were strictly ranting and you were not looking for advice then my apologies. If you were looking for sympathy or only support for what your actions or against his, then maybe you should of just said that.

[LostFather]

I think many people have made it clear that unless you put your personal issues aside and focus on the child things will not get easier.. You seem very bitter towards the father, which you have every right to be, but do this on your own time. If you two can't get along then lawyer up and watch your bank accounts dwindle away.

You may need to step back and really think about it... you MAY think you are being reasonable to him, but reverse the rolls. Things you are saying are not adding up Truly think about what he is saying, yes most of it may be junk, but try to read between the lines nad find out what the under lying issue is... maybe he feels he is not getting enough access to his children, why not give him every Tuesday/Wednesday? Maybe he feels he is not getting enough say or kept in the loop enough... when appointments need to be booked, let him know in advance of booking them that the child needs to see this person because of this reason. Keep him informed... the more involved he is the easier it will be on you. Don't try to hide things from him or you will never get out of this downward spirl.

Well said.

[LostFather]

Wrong advice? Attacking a mother in court with lies and accusations trying to prove her unfit, with no evidence? The 20 page court papers were full of spelling mistakes, and even the wrong paper work to start off the motion? He was trying to change a final court order. Also he was calling judges, mediators, duty council, and lawyers bias and unprofessional?

spelling mistakes....really! You are too concerned about him, and how to fix him. You think and almost as you're speaking for him, that everything was ok! It was not! People beside me are telling you in different ways, some I admit much better than I, but we're pretty much all saying the same thing. He's not ok. He has a problemwith access/custody and information by the sounds of it. Whether he is an ass or not...is not the issue, though thats what you're trying to prove to everyone. You need to find out a way resolve the problems....if he is the only one being an ass....which I doubt, but for the sake of argument lets say he is...then that will come out. You just need to do your part. Fostering the relationship between children and other parent is a must. You do not have the power to deny access, you say you're not...but you in fact are, by enabling the children to stay with you because they want to. You, as well as he, needs a judge to decide, especially for the younger children or child. This is something in my opinion you're totally missing. On one hand you tell everyone who'll listen as it seems that dad is bad for taking daughter in....but you are just doing what the children want when the roles are reversed...this is not only hypocritical, is is wrong! And if not careful. You'll find yourself at the wrong end of the law in a heartbeat especially if he's doing what you he is...going to a fathers support group.

As I've said and some others as well, this all doesn't quite add up. But hey you are the one at the end of the day that will have to deal with it...so don't listen to anything.

[mts1973]

LF--Oh my! I like how you put words in my mouth. Where did I say anywhere in all this he was a bad dad? Yes the judge already decided that there was no change in material circumstances that she should leave the arrangement he already consented to. Meaning leaving her siblings, her school, friends and home, to move into a basement apartment with him. As for the oldest moving into his place, it didn't last long until he sent her home. He did admit that he allowed it for all the wrong reasons. Now through all this past court business he tried to renounce his responsibility for her, saying she was only just a friend to him, because she isn't his biological daughter. He did used to call her his own until the middle of this past year.

You are right, I am the one at the end of the day have to deal with it, so I don't know why you care enough to keep up this bantering back and forth. I am allowed my opinion, and you are allowed yours, and I am certainly not here to make things "add up" to you, or try to prove anything to anyone. So you can pass judgement somewhere else. Thanks! Have a great evening!

[mts1973]

PS..My original post was about fathers/rights groups, so I can be more educated about it. Some where somebody inquired about the history.

[Nadia]

Support groups - whether specifically for men or women going through the challenges of divorce, can help. But like everything else, you kind of have to pick and choose what advice to take. Personally, I found I did better without the "support" because the support group I attended only encouraged me to think of myself as a victim and did little to empower me as a person.

Try and not focus upon what your ex is or isn't doing, but your own relationship with the children. Stop listening to his "narrative." If you spend all your time worrying about what he thinks, believes in and is going to do, it will simply detract away from the quality of your own life and drive you around the bend.

Instead focus upon setting boundaries. Communicate by email only strictly about the children. Ignore the rest if you can or allocate a specific time and place where you must deal with it. Just don't let it spill over into the life whereby it leaves you feeling bitter and angry.

[janedoe99]

it's really unfortunate because there are "crazy woman" who use the system to their advantage for the wrong reasons and give us all a bad rep. Some of us are actually working our butts off day in and day out while our husbands are not being proper parents.
Many men are working their butts off and don't get to see their children. Then others just want to fight for the sake of fighting.

[Kenny]

What was the name of the fathers' right's group?

[cashcow4ex]

What was the name of the fathers' right's group?

LOL Love it

[mts1973]

I don't know the name of the group.

[HammerDad]

F.A.C.T. is in Toronto.

[Kenny]

Being an occasional poster on Fathers Are Capable Too (FACT) for the past seven years, and was the same with Fathers In Action (FIA) for three years, I have some insight to them. FACT is a library of information from a national and international perspective. There of a few regular members who have the pulse of fathers' plight in family court. Some of them have a vast experience in family law, some are well informed on the political aspects, others have just been destroyed by the system. As for legal advise, the members of FACT, like Ottawa Divorce Forums and myself, have varying degrees of mixed experience in the family law system. I always said that there is no substitute for a lawyer. When I give advice here, it is what worked for me in my particular case. Remember, each case is different.

In summary, father's rights groups serve a definite purpose. But like any advice you get, whether from a group, individual or lawyer, weight it and maybe get a second or third opinion.

[baldclub]

So far, I have found the book 'putting children first' to be helpful. I also found reading this decision useful CanLII - 2008 CanLII 3971 (ON SC)
since there is no gender issues.
Good luck.

(I don't want to disrupt this topic, but thanks FaithandMorals for that case study!)

[FaithandMorals]

(I don't want to disrupt this topic, but thanks FaithandMorals for that case study!)

You are welcome.

It was/is interesting for me to read/learn that when the gender is the same, the law still favours one parent over the other.

I suspect in our lifetime we will see some (slow) changes to Family Law to reflect this. I also suspect that once more women earn more then men Family Law will become more equitable.

I think this will happen naturally albeit slowly as other Western countries adopt fairer systems and try different solutions.