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Child Support for post secondary education

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Wonderinghow View Post
    Maybe someone can help me on this, I can't seem to get a clear consensus on income when it comes to a corporation.
    Are both incomes (personal & corporate) combined for determining CS? Is only a portion of the total net corporate income considered or the complete amount?
    Also, could the actual income be higher than what is claimed?
    He always claims his income is only his personal income and doesn't calculate the corporate income.
    The reason for the lack of consensus is that results vary widely from case to case.

    Corporate earnings are corporate earnings. What he pays himself is his income. However, whether or not any of the corporate earning get imputed to him depend on:

    1. the legitimacy of write-offs;
    2. the amount of retained earnings left in the corporate accounts; and
    3. what the industry standard is for 1 and 2.

    Some companies need to leave larger amount in the accounts for the next year due to the nature of business. Others do not. It comes down to what the industry standard is. No one here can likely tell you whether or not you will be successful because I don't believe most here are experts in a) reading judges minds, b) the determining what the industry standard would be and c) figuring out likelihoods based off of limited info provided.

    You best bets are to file a motion to adjust c/s, request disclosure and go from there. Your chances of getting increased c/s are pretty much guaranteed. How much the increase is will depend on a lot of different factors. But any increase is likely going to fairly significant and help you in the long run.

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    • #32
      I agree with HammerDad, also imagine all the purses you can buy with that extra child support, you go girl!!

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      • #33
        *update*
        Well we had a conference meeting between both parties and a judge this week. Both parties have documentation from business appraiser to support his "real" income, problem is there is so much spread between the two that the judge recommended a third appraisal. Even with the number our appraiser got, he assumed that there were no personal expenses paid by the corporation which we know is a complete lie. He does not personally own a vehicle, his company owns a few trucks, which one is his daily driver, an SUV which his girlfriend drives everyday and a convertible sports car. We question him on the details of the vehicles but always answers in a devious manner or otherwise just ignores the question which will incriminate him. We want a forensic auditor to go through all his business papers but he said he didn't want anybody going into his home rooting through his papers. We want this audit to demonstrate to a judge that he is lying about his use of company resources. We know he's lying and he has denied it from the beginning to this day even though he shows up to court in his company vehicle.
        I get the feeling that my lawyer wants me to settle before going to trial, all we get are ridiculous offers from him and his lawyer. My lawyers keeps telling that it will cost a fortune to go to trial and we will never get the proper back pay and appropriate CS based on his real income. He also says that he won't be liable to pay my legal fees or a best case only pay a portion.
        We know he roughly makes ten times my salary, over $270000 even without personal expenses accounted for.
        He always paid CS based on a $40000 for 2 children without ever paying any extras for 13 years.
        Why do I get a feeling that my lawyer doesn't want to go to trial with this when it's more than obvious that I have an extremely strong case??
        Meanwhile, his lawyer is pushing to go to trial even though it is obvious that he is hiding a lot of income and is lying through his teeth, so much so that the judge told him that lying under oath could bring on serious consequences including jail. Even the judge knew that he was lying and essentially warned him but he was powerless at the time because he wasn't under oath.
        Also, to this day he still refuses or chooses which extra expenses that he wants to pay. He also seems to want to decide which % he pays.
        Why is it that they seem to always have the upper hand and be in control while we always seem to be struggling.
        Should I consult another lawyer or just trust my current lawyer? He seems good with procedures but every time were in front of a judge or my ex's lawyer I feel like he becomes lame or doesn't put up much of a fight and let's them walk all over us.
        This judge had no power to make any decisions, could it be that is why he wasn't pushing the issues?
        Can a judge refuse a forensic audit on the corporation?
        Everywhere I read this is an impossible case to loose. From what I see, retro could easily be paid 3 back because he failed to advise me that his income had more tripled and he had incorporated a business even though he was still paying based on about $40000 income.
        Why is it that my lawyer says we cannot go back 3 years?

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        • #34
          You know everything you said points to you being a nut.... In face of all your explanations it is the logical explanation

          Just consider:
          His Lawyer WANTS to go to trial
          YOUR lawyer doesn't want to go to trial

          Doesn't that tell you something?

          Even if you settle now and in the future find out he is hiding income the child support will probably grabbed retroactively because he lied.

          Also don't make sweeping generalizations, it depends on the parties and the judges.

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          • #35
            I don't really understand your comment. We know he is lying, we've proved that he's lying but he continues to deny it. Why settle now, we know he's hiding income and if we settle it's for a ridiculous offer based loosely on his line 150 income with no back pay, no legal fees and only minimal extra expenses and the % he seems fit.

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            • #36
              I'd consider another lawyer who is dynamite in court room (you described your current lawyer as ineffective). Lots of paper-push type lawyers out there who really don't have much courtroom experience. People forget to question lawyers closely on their court time & successes prior to retaining them.

              Of course his lawyer wants to go to court. He is making money, win or lose, to represent your ex. I wouldn't read anything more into that.

              I had to laugh about your ex's pathetic stance regarding forensic accountants - forensic accountants don't do house calls. Your ex would be responsible to provide all documentation to the accountant. If he refuses then accountant would note this. That would be brilliant for you (if you had a decent lawyer).

              BTW - don't get too hung up on the vehicle thing. It's just a small amount in the big picture. A good accountant will find the substantial things.

              My ex's lawyer is a arrogant toad. Come court time he was a blathering idiot who got shot down by judge.

              If you have the energy I'd stand your ground and hopefully you will be presented with a reasonable offer. Then it becomes simple mathematics for you to determine if it's worthwhile to continue.

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              • #37
                I was under the impression that the accountants would go to his office which is in his house but I could have understood wrong.
                We ask him questions and documentation to properly establish his income and he either refuses to answer some questions, answers some vaguely, says some are irrelevant or says he already answered before. He seems to be getting away with all the shenanigans all the time.
                I understand about the vehicles but if there are three relatively expensive vehicles, with gas, maintenance, insurance and so on, after 3 or 4 years this would add to up to a significant amount to add to his revenues.
                I don't think well get a reasonable offer, he's too arrogant, pig headed and greedy.
                He continually states that he has no money but lives in a $750K 5000' house with an indoor pool.

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                • #38
                  Bank accounts, financial statements tell the story. An Order for full disclosure, itemizing each and every document to be turned over to you would be sufficient.

                  No the accountants don't go into your house and neither do CRA people (unless you are running an illegal drug/gambling house).

                  Quit watching so much American television. Even if you are audited by the CRA (government) you have to bring your things to their office.

                  He could be sporting diamond-encrusted Rolex watches, nose & belly rings but it is meaningless because he can say they are gifts. You have to show money-in/money-out because you are trying to show that his is hiding EARNED INCOME. What are reasonable business expenses as evidenced by 3 years of financial records... stuff your accountant can advise you about. Start with bank statements, GST/HST statements, company financial statements, registry records. Some people are spendthrifts and live large. He could be broke and living off a large line of credit with a bunch of leased vehicles. I'd run a credit check on him (see if he has applied for anything new recently)

                  This is not an easy task.

                  Edit - onus is on you to prove your suspicions. Without documents you are hooped IMO. Reread HammerDad's post above. Have you followed the proper process todate and requested "full financial disclosure (with details)?
                  Last edited by arabian; 09-12-2015, 07:21 PM. Reason: adding thoughts

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                  • #39
                    The vehicles might actully be a lynchpin. He should be taking an automotive standby charge on his taxes for having access to a company car for personal usage. Total amount might be less than 10k a year.

                    I wouldn't get hung up on the house either. Its an asset. I have friends who make less than my wife and I, but have a house worth 750k, because they bought when the market was depressed, have a bargain basement mortgage, and live very frugally.

                    I also agree on what Arabian was saying on the lawyer. Some lawyers don't go to court. Do a search on canlii, does your lawyer show up in results?

                    Comment

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