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  • #46
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    Because false allegations get you nowhere with these organizations generally... False allegations don't even get you sympathy on a public message board... For the same reasons and points you are making in a very logical pattern.

    As always, murphyslaw, your logical rational and reasonable focus on the cogent and relevant evidence to the allegations made by a poster makes me smile.

    One would also question why the OP continues to post in such a hostile manner. It may be that this whole "story" is untrue. The inconsistencies in the responses are starting to show through.

    The conflict rating scale on the ratio of request for help to response in a negative tone by this poster is off the charts and similar to that of other highly conflicted posters which have graced this board with their presence. A resourceful person would just stop bothering where by a highly conflicted person who is unable to manage their internal up-setters will continue the fight.

    A good example of this pattern of behaviour as persisted on this site can be found in these threads which this thread is demonstrating as well:

    http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...isputes-10638/

    http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-access-11615/

    My story is not a story, anything I say is based off of what has happened. I am hostile as a result of the hostility. I find it funny how much the mother is favored here, I was really just hoping for an unbiased response. This is not the 50's, woman are not helpless. I'm not really sure what "inconsistencies" are showing through??????

    I find your response very strange. And your posts are not really contributing at this point, so why continue?

    I am really only looking for advice, and to be talked to like I am a human being. I guarantee that this would never have come to this if we were all sitting in the same room. I never said I needed sympathy, I asked for advice. I don't want you to agree with me to agree with me, I was just looking for some advice. Maybe hoping that somebody that has gone through this could share their experience. This wasn't supposed to turn into a finger pointing therapy session for some of the people here.

    When a person asks for help, I hope that I don't treat them the way some of you have treated me. Remember, you don't know me, but i'm not going to sit back and take the abuse.

    And for the record, you are right, I don't know if "arabian" has an issue with alcohol, but she didn't have the right to make over half that allegations she did about me either. Maybe she knows how it feels now?

    Comment


    • #47
      I am not judging you at all. A family that size is a huge responsibility. And aside from the frenzy around parts of this post, the ages do matter so that people get a better sense of what you're dealing with. There is no doubt (I don't think in anyone's mind) that keeping everyone fed and clothed is very costly.

      Many of us have had negative experiences with a lawyer, and the system. I don't think everyone is my ex. Admittedly I am sometimes fascinated by a 2nd wife's opinions on a first wife b/c I've seen the extreme of the kinds of lies that are perpetuated. So when I asked "how" you know what you do about the husband's ex, it was for clarification.

      The value village idea, btw is a great one. For all the kids. I've picked up some fabulous deals from there (son is 13) - west49 jeans, American Eagle, Hollister -lots of name brands. Hey, I shop there for myself too, quite often.

      A lot of people struggle. I'm struggling with one child! I don't know where or how often military personnel get posted, but I hope you have some help, support (friends/relatives) so that once in awhile you get some time for yourself. Was the moving around a factor in the custody matter?

      If the ex's son is 12, then if he decides in a cpl of years that he wants to be with his father (more of the time) perhaps that can be revisited. I am likely not adding anything very meaningful to this thread. I do know that keeping matters before the Courts is costly and time consuming. Self representing IS a lot of work. A huge emotional drain on top of that, and I would assume, a strain on any relationship. If you believe after careful research that you meet the threshold for undue hardship by all means, go for it. You will need to leave out all the other observations about the boy's mother and the condition of his shoes etc. Be prepared though, that the Court may not be in agreement with you.

      Financial Stress is only second to major health issues in my opinion. As I said, I cannot imagine having to parent several children with or without a partner. (Unless I was RICH )

      Comment


      • #48
        So now you are giving him clothes that are too big for him.Back to my point,why not buy him cheap clothes that fit the kid?I think Im seeing what the social worker saw-there is no clear choice here.Mommy may not be the best parent and could do with better dating techniques but maybe she really cares.You are very concerned about the money and generous with your children's hand me downs but have not shown any actual valid pluses in your parenting.My kids have happily worn ripped jeans that they love rather then ones in perfect condition that wasn't quite their style.Unless mommy is actually dressing the 12yr old ,that kid is going to choose what he wants to wear.If you actually did want to help him ,you would drag him to value village and get him clothes that FIT .Not drag him to court!

        Comment


        • #49
          I was advised by CAS that at the age of 9, a child can be left home alone for short periods of time. IE: kids w/single parents or both parents working may get home from school at 3pm, and the parent(s) aren't home til ie: 6pm.

          Try and remember that even through criticism (no, not fun for anyone) if we step back and take a look at the entire picture - it can actually be helpful. You have received a cross-section of responses here. Worthwhile to look at it from all angles. Take the feedback, and process it carefully. The truth is (these days) there's nothing unusual about being strapped for finances. You need to ask yourself if you honestly believe your situation is 'unique' - and based on all of the factors, will a Judge?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
            I personally would not start trying to degrade Tayken... take a moment to search this forum and see what Tayken actually has to offer. Tayken is one of the most intelligent posters on this board and is very good at providing good evidence to show the emotional state of other posters.

            I understand that Tayken may have a lot to offer, but I don't understand the tone and attitude of some members. I actually feel like I am being "stoned by the village". If a person has something to offer a person, even if the person doesn't want to hear it, then please, offer it.

            I am really shocked with this site, I really didn't expect this at all.

            I wasn't saying that my husband doesn't want to pay, we just can't afford to pay as much as we are with all of the extras. I believe if you have a child you provide for the child, and he will still be provided for, but we can't have one standard for one child and another for the other children. This really wasn't about me being a bad parent or his ex being a bad parent.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by hadenough View Post
              I was advised by CAS that at the age of 9, a child can be left home alone for short periods of time. IE: kids w/single parents or both parents working may get home from school at 3pm, and the parent(s) aren't home til ie: 6pm.

              Try and remember that even through criticism (no, not fun for anyone) if we step back and take a look at the entire picture - it can actually be helpful. You have received a cross-section of responses here. Worthwhile to look at it from all angles. Take the feedback, and process it carefully. The truth is (these days) there's nothing unusual about being strapped for finances. You need to ask yourself if you honestly believe your situation is 'unique' - and based on all of the factors, will a Judge?
              Hi,

              Thank you.

              Yes, I did find some of what you just wrote about the being home alone, but, when we called the police they advised us it was up to the discretion of the parent. I personally don't think a child should be left alone until they are at least 12, and have had a home alone course, and only during the day. For the record, my step son has had a home alone course, because my husband signed him up for it.

              And I do appreciate constructive criticism, but calling me a breeder isn't really constructive. All in all, some of the points have made me think, and I appreciate that. I will never agree with everybody else's point of view, and I respect that somebody will not agree with me either.

              I do believe our situation is unique, I truly do, as well as after talking to a few lawyers, two of which have looked at our finances and reasons (they agree). We only have the legal debt (left over from custody) right now, but it is starting to turn and get us deeper and deeper in debt.

              My biggest motivator was to ask, if we qualify, the lawyers (every single one we talked to agreed), what are the actual odds of being successful in winning an undue hardship claim? And what can a person expect from this if they do win?

              I wasn't asking about my situation, I know about my situation. I was asking for advice if this was possible to be "approved" and what to expect if it was.

              Comment


              • #52
                In a perfect world, each child would have an equal and good standard of living. In a Perfect World. She has one child. You have 4, 2 of whom are very young. I'd have to go back and look at the ages.

                You recv x amount in CS for your 2 from a previous marriage. Obviously with more kids, you are going to have to make a buck stretch further than a parent with one.

                I'm pretty sure that my ex's wife goes bananas over what he is ordered to pay FRO in CS/SS. They have 2 young kids together. I can assure you those kids do not go without. And still he/they are pissed re paying CS/SS. (Not saying you are like her). But what I am saying is, she chose to marry him. She chose to have kids with him. Okay, so they enjoyed the phase of throwing $300/a month my way - for years, whille they lived it up. Well now there's a court order, a costs order and he's 30k in arrears. They just bought a new house. Brand new. So although it may seem like a hard line, and I draw no comparisons except for the fact that you are both 2nd partners with young kids - you made this choice.

                You may not like the current financial climate, but will you concede that you made the choice to marry him and have more kids? Obviously (short of a winfall) it wasn't going to make your financial situation easier, given his prior obligation to the first child.

                I'm all for true love and walks on the beach, but me personally? There is no f*ing way in hell I'd get involved with anyone that didn't have all these issues wired down tight. I don't envy your situation one bit. In all likelihood you will need to get used to the idea that the next 5-7 years are going to be very difficult financially.

                Comment


                • #53
                  C/S is based off of income. If his income has been reduced, than the amount he pays in c/s will be reduced.

                  If it is your income that has been reduced, I have a feeling you will have an uphill battle. Your arguments for reduced c/s will be weakened by your decision to have more kids (as stated, it is an option....but I don't want to pile on) and any financial decisions you may have made.

                  If you are not receiving full c/s for your existing children or have not updated it, it will further hurt your case for hardship.

                  Hardship is very hard to prove. If you have a house, they will ask why can't you rent. Do you have newish cars? Does your ex pay their proportional amount for s7 activities? There are a number of factors involved.

                  It isn't about one child getting preferential treatment. It is amount your partner and his continuing obligation. You knew it existed when you met him, you managed for a while to make it work but now have run into unforseen financial hardship. You will have to adjust your household bills first prior to claiming hardship.

                  Cell phones = gone
                  television = basic cable at best
                  internet = there are libraries
                  cars = hopefully not newish

                  That is just a start of what will be looked at. When claiming hardship you must provide a detailed household budget that will be closely scrutinized. You will have to change your budget prior to going in to reduce your costs as much as possible to be successful.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    OP: HammerDad always has very sound advice and he has said what I was trying to say. Only he said it better and with less words, and more detail. HD does have a legal background and has provided you with excellent, balanced information/advice.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                      I am not judging you at all. A family that size is a huge responsibility. And aside from the frenzy around parts of this post, the ages do matter so that people get a better sense of what you're dealing with. There is no doubt (I don't think in anyone's mind) that keeping everyone fed and clothed is very costly.

                      Many of us have had negative experiences with a lawyer, and the system. I don't think everyone is my ex. Admittedly I am sometimes fascinated by a 2nd wife's opinions on a first wife b/c I've seen the extreme of the kinds of lies that are perpetuated. So when I asked "how" you know what you do about the husband's ex, it was for clarification.

                      The value village idea, btw is a great one. For all the kids. I've picked up some fabulous deals from there (son is 13) - west49 jeans, American Eagle, Hollister -lots of name brands. Hey, I shop there for myself too, quite often.

                      A lot of people struggle. I'm struggling with one child! I don't know where or how often military personnel get posted, but I hope you have some help, support (friends/relatives) so that once in awhile you get some time for yourself. Was the moving around a factor in the custody matter?

                      If the ex's son is 12, then if he decides in a cpl of years that he wants to be with his father (more of the time) perhaps that can be revisited. I am likely not adding anything very meaningful to this thread. I do know that keeping matters before the Courts is costly and time consuming. Self representing IS a lot of work. A huge emotional drain on top of that, and I would assume, a strain on any relationship. If you believe after careful research that you meet the threshold for undue hardship by all means, go for it. You will need to leave out all the other observations about the boy's mother and the condition of his shoes etc. Be prepared though, that the Court may not be in agreement with you.

                      Financial Stress is only second to major health issues in my opinion. As I said, I cannot imagine having to parent several children with or without a partner. (Unless I was RICH )

                      Hi,

                      It does get crazy, but the older kids are a great help. I grew up in a big family and love the hustle and bustle of it. You never have to worry about not having something to do at least! lol

                      I had a great lawyer with my divorce, he was very reasonable.

                      And the only reason we got a lawyer for my ex (they always had an informal arrangement) was because we were posted and his son wanted to come. So yes, that is why. Things were always touch and go with them, but this took it over the edge. It was hard on the adults, but his son went through a lot. We disagreed with talking to him about the issues, but the ex didn't. The things he would ask his dad about, he never should have known. And they were twisted and changed to suit the story he was told. I wish I was exaggerating.

                      I have to say we had a very passive lawyer (who later admitted to not having taken a vacation in over three years), and his ex had a pittbull for a lawyer. I wish we had of gotten her ex's lawyer, but on the other side of the coin, we really wanted a fair, moral person representing us. Our lawyer might normally be really good, but she is older, caring for her 90 year old mother and she is overworked. We wish we had of known this prior to retaining her.

                      Now, our son was assigned his own lawyer and social worker. The social worker was appalled that his dad talked to him about moving. My husband didn't say, "son you can do whatever you want", he just talked to him to see what he wanted. The social worker had her mind made up before she talked to anybody. If they had of stayed together, they would have had to have a similar conversation. The social worker also told us that she was dealing with a 17 year old that wanted to move with his dad, and that the courts were not going to let that happen. So basically my ex's son does not have any rights or say. It was really sad.

                      We do know that the mother's care of his son is separate from the undue hardship request. And hopefully if we end up asking for it, it will only be temporary. This is a last resort.

                      I did try to be "friends" with the mother, she was blaming a lot of things on me. His webcam broke once, and I said ask your mother and I can mail you an extra one that I have. She was furious, stating I didn't know my boundaries. Well I deal with a step mother for my children and I would have thought it was great that she made that offer. I emailed and told her we should work together, I said I felt if it had of been anybody else that made the offer she would have been fine with it. She said oh no, I would have been mad at anybody. Well a year later her son's laptop cable broke and my mother in law gave him the money to buy a new cable, sure enough, she wasn't upset about it. So there is a different standard on how I should be treated. I think she needs to realize this isn't about her or me, it is about her son and my step-son. I am in no way shape or form his mother, not possible to take that title, but I care about him and I will do anything I can for him.

                      Thank you for your advice.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                        So now you are giving him clothes that are too big for him.Back to my point,why not buy him cheap clothes that fit the kid?I think Im seeing what the social worker saw-there is no clear choice here.Mommy may not be the best parent and could do with better dating techniques but maybe she really cares.You are very concerned about the money and generous with your children's hand me downs but have not shown any actual valid pluses in your parenting.My kids have happily worn ripped jeans that they love rather then ones in perfect condition that wasn't quite their style.Unless mommy is actually dressing the 12yr old ,that kid is going to choose what he wants to wear.If you actually did want to help him ,you would drag him to value village and get him clothes that FIT .Not drag him to court!
                        Hi!

                        I'm sorry it is hard to include every single thing we have done, but actually, my husband did take my step-son to value village. He bought him a name brand winter jacket, in which his ex made fun of it to the point his son would not wear it. When the jacket was purchased it was the jacket his son wanted...I can see that whatever I write here you won't agree with anything I say. Even if you would have been the one to suggest it, prior to me saying.

                        And I don't know about you, but I would much rather have something larger on me than to tight. Also, I think we are having an issue with finances, so even value village is to much these days, we have other children to support as well.

                        We are not dragging his son to court, you should know that.

                        This is really off topic...

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I know how annoying the Devil's Advocate can be, but rather than shun it - embrace it. It all provides a wider angle view. IE: the 17 year old that you said was not permitted to live with his father? For all you/i know, perhaps the father is a complete disaster as a parent. Maybe he sells and does drugs out of his home and runs a prostitution ring. There's any number of circumstances that could exist. You just never know.

                          At 17, if that kid was hell bent on running to Dad's, I don't think there'd be much done to enforce him going back home. There are literally thousands of different circumstances. We are often quick to judge something without knowing a lot of the actual facts.

                          My ex's wife thinks I'm the Devil's minion. She does not even know me. He's told a few ppl (her and her family, so whatever) that I'm a complete lunatic. They have *nothing* to base this on, other than his word. He's a patholgical liar. I feel a bit sorry for them. But I also think they are stupid and gullible. They are all in for a rude awakening one day soon.

                          As for your efforts to get along with your step-son's mom: good for you. Not your problem if she can't be appreciative. All we can do is 'try' - no guarantee of the outcome.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                            C/S is based off of income. If his income has been reduced, than the amount he pays in c/s will be reduced.

                            If it is your income that has been reduced, I have a feeling you will have an uphill battle. Your arguments for reduced c/s will be weakened by your decision to have more kids (as stated, it is an option....but I don't want to pile on) and any financial decisions you may have made.

                            If you are not receiving full c/s for your existing children or have not updated it, it will further hurt your case for hardship.

                            Hardship is very hard to prove. If you have a house, they will ask why can't you rent. Do you have newish cars? Does your ex pay their proportional amount for s7 activities? There are a number of factors involved.

                            It isn't about one child getting preferential treatment. It is amount your partner and his continuing obligation. You knew it existed when you met him, you managed for a while to make it work but now have run into unforseen financial hardship. You will have to adjust your household bills first prior to claiming hardship.

                            Cell phones = gone
                            television = basic cable at best
                            internet = there are libraries
                            cars = hopefully not newish

                            That is just a start of what will be looked at. When claiming hardship you must provide a detailed household budget that will be closely scrutinized. You will have to change your budget prior to going in to reduce your costs as much as possible to be successful.
                            Hi,

                            Thank you for your advice,

                            When I first met my husband he paid less in cs as he had shared custody. He also didn't have travel expenses to see his child, we were posted, unfortunately.

                            We had more children prior to all of these financial changes. My husband's income has been reduced as well, and it is looking like mine will be, but that will not affect us for another year or so.

                            My ex claimed undue hardship and I took everything into consideration (this was all prior to our new financial challenges), so between lawyers I did agree to a reduction because I felt putting him in financial ruin would have had a negative impact on my children. He still contributes, and it wasn't drastic.

                            We do own a house, but I did prior to all of this. I have cost compared renting versus owning, and it was actually more expensive to rent in the area we live.

                            We do have a newish car, but there is no bus service to get to work. And my husband at times works at 5am. There was no way around not having a car.

                            My ex is required to pay is pro-rata share, but he also has to pay 100% of a gym membership for his son. We are not sure why our lawyer agreed to that, we had advised her it should have been at least pro-rata.

                            Cell phones are needed, my husband's/my job isn't always in a building, we could be anywhere, our kids, babysitter's need to be able to get a hold of us. And trust me, emergencies have happened. We do not have family living close by, our children really need to be able to contact us.

                            The cable is basic, kids need something. Internet I can't just pick up with two small babies to go to the library, which is an hour and a half walk for my kids. The bus does not come out to where we live. They need it for school projects, etc.

                            I have been doing a lot already (always looking for new ways) to reduce our household expenses. I use coupons on sale items, etc. I buy what we need, not what we want. It is a great "diet". I am lucky because the two little ones are both boys, so I hand down clothing to the little one. That has been working out great. I shop for clothes from used clothing, or I use coupons and get it brand new, even cheaper. I'm great at stretching a dollar. I actually shop for groceries later in the evening because the grocery store here marks bread, meats down then (30-50% off).

                            I go through our budget constantly but I am at the end of the road with that. I have slashed everything I can, but I still go back and see what I can do.

                            Thank you so much for responding, it really helps.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                              I know how annoying the Devil's Advocate can be, but rather than shun it - embrace it. It all provides a wider angle view. IE: the 17 year old that you said was not permitted to live with his father? For all you/i know, perhaps the father is a complete disaster as a parent. Maybe he sells and does drugs out of his home and runs a prostitution ring. There's any number of circumstances that could exist. You just never know.

                              At 17, if that kid was hell bent on running to Dad's, I don't think there'd be much done to enforce him going back home. There are literally thousands of different circumstances. We are often quick to judge something without knowing a lot of the actual facts.

                              My ex's wife thinks I'm the Devil's minion. She does not even know me. He's told a few ppl (her and her family, so whatever) that I'm a complete lunatic. They have *nothing* to base this on, other than his word. He's a patholgical liar. I feel a bit sorry for them. But I also think they are stupid and gullible. They are all in for a rude awakening one day soon.

                              As for your efforts to get along with your step-son's mom: good for you. Not your problem if she can't be appreciative. All we can do is 'try' - no guarantee of the outcome.

                              Hi,

                              No, I appreciate the devils advocate!

                              Yes, the social worker never said why the 17 year old wasn't allowed, but she was very clear about it.

                              It is funny you say your ex is a pathological liar, my husband's ex is as well. My husband downplayed just how bad things were with her, he doesn't spend time trash talking her, but when stories come out, my jaw drops. I personally have dealt with her lies, but I call her on them, the funny thing is, she just ignores it. I find that so weird, she doesn't even respond. My husband is convinced that she believes her lies, that she has almost made them a reality.

                              I really hope, that down the road his son will come live with us. When we were fighting for custody, we didn't even ask for cs, and we were going to pay for all of the travel (as we wouldn't have been paying cs). We also would have let her continue to claim him on her income tax. His son was devastated. She has since told her son that he will never have a choice on living with us, and after what happened he believes it. We avoid talking to him about it, because it only stirs the pot, and it really isn't something he should have to deal with.

                              As for trying to get along with her, I was really upset that we couldn't make it work. But at least I can't say I didn't try. She has a lot of issues with people though. One thing that does really help though, is my husband's mom stays in contact with her. She knows his ex and what she does, but this way she gets to keep close contact with her grandson. We actually only deal via email with his ex, and we have to cc his mother now, so she can't twist a story. This has been a huge help but sad that it has to be done.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                                In a perfect world, each child would have an equal and good standard of living. In a Perfect World. She has one child. You have 4, 2 of whom are very young. I'd have to go back and look at the ages.

                                You recv x amount in CS for your 2 from a previous marriage. Obviously with more kids, you are going to have to make a buck stretch further than a parent with one.

                                I'm pretty sure that my ex's wife goes bananas over what he is ordered to pay FRO in CS/SS. They have 2 young kids together. I can assure you those kids do not go without. And still he/they are pissed re paying CS/SS. (Not saying you are like her). But what I am saying is, she chose to marry him. She chose to have kids with him. Okay, so they enjoyed the phase of throwing $300/a month my way - for years, whille they lived it up. Well now there's a court order, a costs order and he's 30k in arrears. They just bought a new house. Brand new. So although it may seem like a hard line, and I draw no comparisons except for the fact that you are both 2nd partners with young kids - you made this choice.

                                You may not like the current financial climate, but will you concede that you made the choice to marry him and have more kids? Obviously (short of a winfall) it wasn't going to make your financial situation easier, given his prior obligation to the first child.

                                I'm all for true love and walks on the beach, but me personally? There is no f*ing way in hell I'd get involved with anyone that didn't have all these issues wired down tight. I don't envy your situation one bit. In all likelihood you will need to get used to the idea that the next 5-7 years are going to be very difficult financially.

                                No, I agree with you, I knew his situation when I married him. And it wasn't this bad in the beginning financially. The posting was the worst thing that could have happened to us. Things were fine prior to the posting.

                                I haven't addressed this, but we are not asking for things to be "fair", we just need to be able to have money to pay for his son's travel, etc. We wouldn't be asking the court to make the household's "even" but we do need to be able to function financially.

                                Comment

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