Dismissal due to professional misconduct and SS

[abuseddad]

In a case when there is a professional misconduct at work that causes one of the parent to be dismissed (terminated or fired). Now does the SS owed to this parent increases based on the fact that the parent decided to do something to get them terminated or fired?

thanks

[BitHunter]

If the job loss is a "material change" then yes. Although things which are frequent occurrences are not "unforeseeable", thus not "material change". (look up in canlii what constitutes "material change".)
But even if it is not a material change, and without a new court order you don't need to pay a cent more, that won't stop her to ask for more and drag you through the court system.

[arabian]

If I recall correctly, your ex hasn't proven she is entitled to SS. If that is the case I wouldn't even entertain a discussion about or acknowledge SS.

Have you even completed your separation agreement?

[abuseddad]

thanks.
I am in the process of collecting evidence for before the marriage status , financial statement is stilling in progress.

there is a significant difference in income (almost double), the online calculator says that she is entitled.

I just wanted to be clear if that there is a professional misconduct (nothing to do with martial status) will she be entitled for more.

Post her remarrying , do I go back to court and ask for reduction in terms of SS after a year of her marriage or should right after her marriage?

thanks

[Links17]

the online calculator says that she is entitled.

Calculators NEVER determine entitlement

if that there is a professional misconduct

You aren't responsible for her actions that have nothing to do with the marriage, so no. Furthermore, she should be trying to get new work immediately.

Post her remarrying , do I go back to court and ask for reduction in terms of SS after a year of her marriage or should right after her marriage?

I would file right away because by time you get to court it will be a year later.

[arabian]

Online calculators do not determine if someone is or isn't eligible for SS.

Everything goes back to your SA or divorce Order. Some people have clauses in their agreements that nothing whatsoever, including change of circumstance, will cause payment to change. IF both parties have independent legal advice then judges generally will not monkey with the agreement. SS is negotiated/determined on an individual basis. There are no hard and fast rules.

Sounds like you had better walk before you run and get the agreement drawn up and entered into court. The separation agreement is supposed to reflect the agreed upon wishes of you and your STBX.

If there is no agreement in place then material change of circumstance could include loss of job, or someone starting a new job after being unemployed for a long period of time.

Unless you have remarrying specified in your separation agreement/Divorce Order, that upon either party remarrying that SS terminates, it will make no difference. Also probably wise to carefully define "remarrying" as many people simply play house to get around that one.

Unless you were in a long-term marriage you very well may be able to limit duration for SS for .5/years you were married. So if you were married for 10 you can possibly be looking at 5 yrs of SS. If that is the case then try to negotiate it in a stepped-down manner, paying higher payments at the start and so on. Again, I would emphasize that being married for 10 years DOES NOT make your ex automatically entitled to SS. Equalization is also contemplated in some cases, particularly when there has been an unequal division of assets.

When you talk about professional misconduct I am assuming it was your STBX who was dismissed? Often when people lose or change their employment it has no bearing on the SS until after a reasonable period of time. Reason being that people could intentionally lose their jobs with the hope that support payments would decrease/increase.

[arabian]

I note by reviewing your past posts that you have been having difficulties since 2011. That is 4 years that have come and gone that perhaps will be added on to determine your time co-habitating and ultimately affect the quantum of SS.

[Rioe]

there is a significant difference in income (almost double), the online calculator says that she is entitled.

The online calculator just estimates what a ballpark amount would be IF the recipient is entitled. It does not determine actual entitlement.

If your ex has a career and did not make sacrifices due to the marriage, she is likely NOT entitled to SS, no matter what your income disparity is.

Think about this way: If you had never gotten married and she remained in the career she had before you met, would her income be much different than it is now?

If not, then she has no entitlement to SS.

[abuseddad]

Thanks everyone. Is it clear cut that there is no entitlement for SS. There were no sacrifices made.
I am expecting that STBX lawyer will come asking for it, then I guess I have to go to court to proof that there is no entitlement. Is there any cases in CALII that I can refer, quote, or a test the judge uses?
Thanks

[dad2bandm]

...I am expecting that STBX lawyer will come asking for it, then I guess I have to go to court to proof that there is no entitlement...

Ex's lawyer and ex, can ask for whatever they want, but remember, it's on them, to show there is entitlement for spousal support. So it's up to them, to prove this.

[Rioe]

Here is some stuff I found online with a quick Google search of

Spousal entitlement family law

2. Entitlement (FV Chapter 4) - The Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines: A New and Improved User's Guide to the Final Version

II. THE CURRENT LAW OF SPOUSAL SUPPORT - Developing Spousal Support Guidelines in Canada: Beginning the Discussion (Background Paper, December 2002)

You can use these as a good starting point. They refer to key CanLII cases throughout.

[abuseddad]

Thanks for the information.
From a Non-compensatory claims point of view, what constitutes hardship : lack of travel, trips, cosmetics, dinning out. Reason for my question is the aggression of the STBX lawyer claiming harship as a result of the marriage breakdown.
Thanks

[arabian]

Sometimes lifestyle is examined and compared. For example, at one of the first meetings I attended with my lawyer I was asked to prepare a budget. I recall being encouraged to include in things such as pedicure, golf, entertainment, hair, and pretty much anything that I did on a regular basis prior to separation. I thought it was silly at the time but once I got up-to-speed on how things work I could understand the rationale behind the very detailed budget. I was not married to a wealthy individual BTW but we both certainly enjoyed a good lifestyle for many years.

[Links17]

The standard for what is considered a need is basically the standard of living during then marriage. That forms part of the non-conpenaatory aspect but that only protects at divorce time for a limited period.

In Arabian's case if the couple was in debt I would have argued that the standard living cannot be based on what was maintained through debt/credit cards.

[abthai]

this is a good thread, i am dealing with my ex as she feels she needs more money. we did go about the divorce the wrong way and didnt do lots of important steps. when we originally separated our incomes we close. she ended up having to resign her position with the govt due to misconduct and getting caught. she quit to avoid going through an investigation. she moved to another part of the country hoping for a transfer and shortly after that she resigned. it had nothing to do with where she moved. now she thinks she is entitled to more than what i had agreed to give her out of the kindness of my own heart.