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  • My tips for less $ and ugly divorce

    1. Don't just run out and get a lawyer. They're more interested in billable hours than they are in you.

    2. Do your homework. Search canlii.ca and find everything pertinent to your case. Become an expert on you and your situation.

    3. Avoid being sucked into Collaborative Family Law. It is a scam. In order to keep out of court 2 lawyers keep the process going forever. Mine and hers went on for 3 years and tons of money.

    4. Find a Mediator. The Mediator should be a lawyer. If one of you doesn't like them, find another.

    6. Come up with agreed equalization and separation agreement.

    7. Get independent legal advice on the separation agreement. You might find a block here as the new lawyers(for both spouses) might see an opportunity to make money. Go to another

    FN

  • #2
    CanLII only represents about 10% of divorces and I believe only those which go to trial. Most divorces are settled out of court.

    CanLII while a good resource only shows the end result (which is good) but doesn't provide any insight into legal maneuvering and positioning which led up to the trial.

    I would add to your list and advise to keep other people (new partners, inlaws) out of the divorce as much as possible.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by arabian View Post
      CanLII only represents about 10% of divorces and I believe only those which go to trial. Most divorces are settled out of court.

      CanLII while a good resource only shows the end result (which is good) but doesn't provide any insight into legal maneuvering and positioning which led up to the trial.

      I would add to your list and advise to keep other people (new partners, inlaws) out of the divorce as much as possible.
      Yup,
      But those are the cases that determine what happens to future divorces.

      Yes, that would be a good Number 8.

      FN

      Comment


      • #4
        I dislike that 90%+ of the cases that make it on Canlii are only the high stakes cases that deal with families with incomes over $100k. It makes it much harder to find relevant/similar cases.

        I understand that in Canada you can only have as much "justice" as you can afford and only people with these kind of incomes usually make it to trial.

        Comment


        • #5
          0- if you believe; before you breakup involve your church/mosque/synagogue/temple, those people are usually very neutral, sincere and interested in patching up, plus dont cost anything. a lot of differences can be tackled with neutral negotiation before it hits the breaking point.

          also if it comes to breakup you can be sure that they will help you come to fair terms for both as they have no monetary interest in your situation. and many are trained to be mediators.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would agree this the OP, we are working with a mediator, so far, so good. Should have a draft agreement to review with independent lawyers (fixed rate) after two sessions.

            We are hoping to work it out, with property transfer and two new wills for under 6K. That includes actuary services and house appraisal. We are being very civil to this point, despite emotional matters.

            I think if more people viewed separation with a feeling of working things out themselves, lawyers would not have to bill time just to get financial statements and a proper starting to point to negotiations ready, most of this can be done on your own. If this due diligence is not done, it leads to even more lawyer time down the road when someone is convinced they were wronged.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
              I dislike that 90%+ of the cases that make it on Canlii are only the high stakes cases that deal with families with incomes over $100k. It makes it much harder to find relevant/similar cases.

              I understand that in Canada you can only have as much "justice" as you can afford and only people with these kind of incomes usually make it to trial.
              That's not really how it works. Canlii only posts judge's decisions. That means by default they are people in high conflict situations where other means of resolving a dispute wouldn't work.

              It's less than 10%, only about 2% of divorces go to trial. A higher percentage may file an application but then settle out of court before trial (which the court system tries its best to encourage.)

              Canlii also includes motion decisions and appeals, so the total number of cases available are greater than the number of couples who couldn't reach a settlement.

              There are many cases on Canlii where the parties make far less than $100k. I read one just today where the parties were on welfare and disablity pension. Another where one party was a stay-at-home with no income, and new spouse, and the other party was earning less than $30k. There are cases there from all across the spectrum.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by arabian View Post
                CanLII only represents about 10% of divorces and I believe only those which go to trial. Most divorces are settled out of court.

                CanLII while a good resource only shows the end result (which is good) but doesn't provide any insight into legal maneuvering and positioning which led up to the trial.

                I would add to your list and advise to keep other people (new partners, inlaws) out of the divorce as much as possible.
                All sound advice. To further on the CanLII comment it is hard to say if it even resembles 10% but, it is a number I wouldn't debate. Based on the fact that 10% of disputes go to court generally. But, the challenge being is that a smaller fraction of the 10% go to a full trial. Added to that only substantial case law is posted to CanLII generally and not everything under the sun. It is at the discretion of the justice presiding from what I can tell if the case law is posted.

                To add to the "other people" I would specifically add "negative advocates". These are people who will blindly follow you into a court room and are "cheer leaders" to how "great" of a parent you are and how "bad" the other parent is. These people are not your "friends" but, negative advocates who champion any stupid allegation you feed them and "go to court" with you.

                Justice don't really care that your friend will swear an affirmation to the truth that they think that the other parent is dangerous. All it demonstrates to a judge is that you are REALLY good at slandering the other parent and creating a "distortion campaign".

                Not many, if any, justices on bench will even consider the additional affidavit materials as they generally are all a pile-on of unsubstantiated allegations from a crowd of "negative advocates" who themselves are "high conflict".

                Don't be surprised when person X who you watched kids a month ago goes flying into court swearing with absolute certainty that you are dangerous and so dangerous that they wouldn't allow their children to be around you. A judge won't be surprised... They read this common pattern of behaviour of negative advocacy from biased witnesses every day in their court rooms.

                The challenge is if the other parent exhibits patterns of paranoid thought is that they will absolutely "believe" what their friend is affirming to the "truth". The other parent will continually insult you, degrade you, threaten you with court action, threaten your lawyer, threaten your family members, call the police, call CAS and generally continue to hurl allegations like rocks in a glass house.

                Nothing is ever "won" before the family court. By going to court both parents can only lose.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken
                Last edited by Tayken; 12-10-2012, 03:56 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                  0- if you believe; before you breakup involve your church/mosque/synagogue/temple, those people are usually very neutral, sincere and interested in patching up, plus dont cost anything. a lot of differences can be tackled with neutral negotiation before it hits the breaking point.

                  also if it comes to breakup you can be sure that they will help you come to fair terms for both as they have no monetary interest in your situation. and many are trained to be mediators.
                  First, I want it clear that I am not anti-church, and this goes for mosques, synagogues, etc. etc. When I mention the term church again, it will also include these other religious organizations.

                  Churches can be very biased. Abusers especially will present a facade of being wonderful, very religious individuals, devoted to his/her family and church. They can deceive the minister and the congregation very easily. The minister can also be partial to the wealthier spouse/partner. It sounds ugly I know, but it happens. Abusers never see themselves as abusers because part of their mentality is incredible justification for what they do.

                  Churches being "neutral?" Far from it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FreeNow View Post
                    1. Don't just run out and get a lawyer. They're more interested in billable hours than they are in you.

                    2. Do your homework. Search canlii.ca and find everything pertinent to your case. Become an expert on you and your situation.

                    3. Avoid being sucked into Collaborative Family Law. It is a scam. In order to keep out of court 2 lawyers keep the process going forever. Mine and hers went on for 3 years and tons of money.

                    4. Find a Mediator. The Mediator should be a lawyer. If one of you doesn't like them, find another.

                    6. Come up with agreed equalization and separation agreement.

                    7. Get independent legal advice on the separation agreement. You might find a block here as the new lawyers(for both spouses) might see an opportunity to make money. Go to another

                    FN

                    Yep did most of that. Unfortunately x amount later and appearances in court and now the other party is cryptically offering what I was at the very beginning... Omg.

                    It only takes one high conflict party... Just one..

                    My new thought- is just dont get married!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post

                      Nothing is ever "won" before the family court. By going to court both parents can only lose.

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken
                      Very True. Always best to settle where you can even if it means giving up on principle. Sometimes the person who"wins" is the one that has the intelligence to settle outside of court. This is why Offers to Settle are very important. I think it is very telling that in the last 6 years of family litigation I have sent over a dozen offers to settle on each matter but never received a single one from my ex.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Doing the work yourself saves tons of money on lawyers. Use the internet, sites like this, libraries and other resources to compile your information. Then consult a lawyer when you need to clarify the law and what is legal, etc.

                        Also, mediation is good but arbitration is better (IMO). Why spend all kinds of time and money in mediation if you both can't agree because both or one party doesn't negotiate. Rather, mediate, solve the easy things then the big ones let the arbitrate do it, same as a judge but far less cost.

                        Comment

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