EN ROUTE toward Motion #1 Follow up

[Tayken]

When children hit 14yo court battles are not worth the time, effort or money. The parent with the best house, most money and gives them freedom will always win.

I hate to say it... You really need to consider that it may be a lost cause forcing access on a 14yo.

[mafia007]

I am not "forcing" access to my D14 but rather fighting what is in her best interest.

If she comes back to me later with arguments that she failed at school, she did not achieve the career she wished, that her life is miserable, that her relationships are failures ... I will tell her with no hesitation that I have tried and fought in the past to avoid all this but unfortunately, you've made your choice. You were 14 yo and old enough to understand but... you made your way to your destiny. In your destiny, there was you, your mother and family, your siblings.... but where was I? You know, I wanted to be there.

Now you are coming back to me and seeking help with your issues. I might, or might not be willing to help as much if I was denied for so long. The commitment, confidence and feelings between each must rebuild before even thinking about reconnecting.

Unconditional love that the father has towards his children should not be taken for granted. The child will have to work and prove to redeem. Because the essential was his "father", and he deliberately ignored the essential for x number of years. I know my heart will forgive... but my mind will be harder to convince.

[rockscan]

As a former alienated child (I had to return a gift I desperately wanted to my fathers gf at his work or "find a new place to live") I can tell you that saying all this to your children will just hurt them.

If they come to you complaining about their failures (they wont btw, I can guarantee they will have shame in this knowing they could have had a better life with you in it) then you must tell them you are sorry they endured that and you wish you could have been there. Do not blame them for actions they were forced to take.

Right now you can also remind them you are there for them, you support them and you want to help them. Period.

What many alienated parents dont realize is the emotional struggle a kid has. Fighting more with the other parent makes it harder on the kids to cope. They are living with someone who EXPECTS them to tow the line. Even though you are there and would take them with open arms, the thought of hurting a parent kills them.

[standing on the sidelines]

plus trying to get revenge on the kids or making them pay for what has happened in the past (not wanting to see the parent) will just prove to the kids that mom was right, Dad is an ass. Then they will make their own choice not to see you.

[mafia007]

I would agree with you if my children were younger but at 14 and 16, they could stand up to their mother. At least, D8 is really standing up to her and she shows more openly the needs to spend time with me.

[LovingFather32]

Your 14 year old will come around. They're full of hormones at this age and their peers are their entire universe. Whatever you do don't pressure her to stand up to her mom, it' just not fair to put them in the middle.

Mom says nasty things about you = Ignore it and let your behavior/access time prove her wrong without even bringing any of it up. Any PAS/Access denials, etc deal with in court only.

After a bunch of fun, positive visits (hate that word) with your kids, they will eventually tell their mom to shut up when she spits venom about you. If you bring stuff up, are hard on them, etc .. you're falling in to mom's trap. Don't do it.

Work for 50/50 of D8, if mom's wheel barrel of denials and proven PAS habits are significant enough. Your other kids will follow.

CAS had to tell mom to calm down on the PAS-like stuff right? Did you run to the court house and get an order for disclosure from CAS of that GOLDEN document?

[Links17]

Tayken is right, if you don't see this as mostly a popularity contest - you're clueless.

Kids still want their parents to be parents I think - but they want to be around the happy, positive, better parent....

Personally I would work on the positivity of the relationship with the kids and at the same time I would go to court over custody if there was an "unfair" status quo against me then if my kid complained why I was doing it or they didn't want to live with them I would explain to them that whether they like it or not they need me as their father in their lives to help, guide and teach them. The fact they don't care (or prefer NOT to live with me) means there is already a problem and I am not going to sit back and let it get worse. However, that is a oone time discussion and the rest of the time is making their time with me awesome in whatever way I can.

The whole "Standing up" thing, DO NOT make your kids do it. When my ex talks trash about to me my kids, I just say "It's ok, ignore it" and I change topic. My kids see my my ex as evil and stupid when she does that. Soldiers don't send kids to fight their battles.... you fight it. You sound like a coward "My kids should stand up to her".....

This all presumes you aren't a dick and a crappy parent. If you are, well then you made your bed and lay in it.

My intuition of you so far on this forum makes me think is that you don't have what it takes to win this popularity contest. This is a war and if you don't plan, strategize, manage your emotions, other people's emotions , responses, etc.... you're just a lemming running off a cliff.

You either need breasts or brains to win and you seem not to have either

[LovingFather32]

Links' post might be a bit hard to hear. He gave some tough love. A lot of good points though.
For teens, unfortunately it is a popularity contest. The below is true.

Originally Posted by Links17

Kids still want their parents to be parents I think - but they want to be around the happy, positive, better parent....

My ex wrote in the communication book once that D5 told her Mamey (her mom) "Don't say that about my daddy. I love my daddy". My ex assumed I trained her to say that. Nope. Whenever D5 came to me and said anything I did exactly as Link's described..."Ignore it hunny, Daddy loves you"...then do something really fun. Our reactions speak louder than anything.

[mafia007]

Originally Posted by Links17

Tayken is right, if you don't see this as mostly a popularity contest - you're clueless.

Kids still want their parents to be parents I think - but they want to be around the happy, positive, better parent....

Of course Tayken is right. I knew from the whole beginning that this was a popularity contest. Problem is the money. I'm the big earner paying full CS because of that false Status quo so mom gets big free reward for that. Plus, with her self-employed daycare at home, she declare a net of 21K out of a gross 45K so her child allowance credits under the new Trudeaumania regime for 3 kids, she gets the maximum benefits per month. Leading her to have more than 1800$ of NDI than me per month. It gives her wings to buy gifts, travel, eat outside, go to movies and precisely... the luxury to spend more time with them - 96%/month.

After I've paid my mortgage, my expenses and CS, I can barely buy myself a coffee at TimHortons. And my legal bills are escalating.... So I do what I can to motivate my kids and have some fun with no $$$ and with the little 4% of access I have right now with them. So we play games, play PS3, they each have an iPad with unlimited WiFi access, we use the hot tub... but until I get my equity and more time with them -- overnights for instance, I am doomed to stick to what I can only afford and schedule.

Originally Posted by Links17

Personally I would work on the positivity of the relationship with the kids and at the same time I would go to court over custody if there was an "unfair" status quo against me then if my kid complained why I was doing it or they didn't want to live with them I would explain to them that whether they like it or not they need me as their father in their lives to help, guide and teach them. The fact they don't care (or prefer NOT to live with me) means there is already a problem and I am not going to sit back and let it get worse. However, that is a oone time discussion and the rest of the time is making their time with me awesome in whatever way I can.

This is where I'm standing right now. Children's advocate was here today, she met with each kids at my house and then talked to me and my gf. She will then meet with us sometime this week before the motion. I am focusing on the fact that all my children needs my help with school issues, needs to spend more time with dad to minimize possible PAS and to keep contact with my side of the family.

I think my little talk to D14 must have help a bit because she was very open, cuddling like she never did and she admitted that I was right about my concerns, and her mom thought the same so she put an end to a relationship (mostly texting) with a "wrong guy".

Originally Posted by Links17

The whole "Standing up" thing, DO NOT make your kids do it. When my ex talks trash about to me my kids, I just say "It's ok, ignore it" and I change topic. My kids see my my ex as evil and stupid when she does that. Soldiers don't send kids to fight their battles.... you fight it. You sound like a coward "My kids should stand up to her".....

This all presumes you aren't a dick and a crappy parent. If you are, well then you made your bed and lay in it.

What I like about my kids is that I don't need to tell them that what mom say about me is wrong because they don't report it since I've told them I don't want to here anything about it. They remember and they know they must not report anything bad coming from their mother. They can talk about good things they've done with their mother I have no problem with that but has to be very limited.

I can tell you though, at 16 yo, I would have never let one of my parent take over my feelings and emotions just to be a pawn to satisfy their own interest. My mom was very calm and passive, my dad was very strict and hard, but I loved them both equally no matter what.

Being said, at 14-16 yo, children have a say in custody. So they must stand up and express what they really want in front of their mother. They must stop the betrayal of going against her wishes and they should think about what is best for them.

Originally Posted by Links17

My intuition of you so far on this forum makes me think is that you don't have what it takes to win this popularity contest. This is a war and if you don't plan, strategize, manage your emotions, other people's emotions , responses, etc.... you're just a lemming running off a cliff.

My intuition to me is that you seem so confident after winning battles in court that you allow yourself to lower the efforts of others without recognizing that each case is different. That may be the case. Knowing that you were married to a crazy crunches who was very contentious is undoubtedly the ultimate reason you have excelled in your cause and deserved the title of "Hand of Justice"? If I would be married to the sister of your ex, I could probably more easily win my case?

I know I am only in the middle or still maybe at the beginning of my litigant case but I would not call my ex to be as contentious as yours. If I recall, most of the male who were successful with their case were dealing with an ex who did not only multiple errors, but were more than crazy vicious contentious nefarious and capricious low self esteemed woman. Truly, that would help in any case. My STBX committed some errors but I wish she could become a little craziest as yours so I could gain a lot more.

Originally Posted by Links17

You either need breasts or brains to win and you seem not to have either

Wake up Links17, you don't only need the brains... were talking about Family Court System. You also need the $$$$$$.

[mafia007]

Originally Posted by LovingFather32

Links' post might be a bit hard to hear. He gave some tough love. A lot of good points though.
For teens, unfortunately it is a popularity contest. The below is true.


My ex wrote in the communication book once that D5 told her Mamey (her mom) "Don't say that about my daddy. I love my daddy". My ex assumed I trained her to say that. Nope. Whenever D5 came to me and said anything I did exactly as Link's described..."Ignore it hunny, Daddy loves you"...then do something really fun. Our reactions speak louder than anything.

Yes I know but not only the popularity. The stability and the assurance plays a big role. Being in the same house, in their same bedroom, in the same neighborhood, close to their school and friends will definitely have an impact on their wishes. I could only afford a house at 20 km away from their school so the distance and the new location is a challenge for them to accept. I assured them that they would still attend the same school, still see their friends or their friends could come here but all seems uncertain for them.

After the motion this week, I'm sure I will gain more access grrrrr should say "parental time" with my kids and I will be more confident and willing to redo the activities we were doing when we were living together. I can't wait to have a movie night with them or have D8 standing near my bed and waiting for me to do her breakfast.

Like you mentioned lately LF32, I will work definitely to have shared custody 50/50 with D8 even if D14 and S16 decides to stay with their mother despite the fact that I am challenging the Court that they need more framing with school issues and more discipline.

The lawyer for the children was here today. She spoke to each of the children alone for 30 minutes and then with me and my gf. She stated that she had some concerns from the other party as she already met with my ex and the children at her end. Were suppose to meet sometime this week with my lawyer for her recommendations, comments and advices. I will definitely PM you if I feel the outcomes needs to be challenged is some ways.

Don't worry, Links must be hard on me but never like the court system.