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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:15 PM
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In some provinces, binding arbitration is also called binding judicial dispute resolution (JDR). Arabian's case in Alberta was a JDR (right?). Just make sure that whatever you do is binding - otherwise you might as well save your time and money and go straight to court.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:48 PM
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Correct - my case was a binding JDR.

Correct - anything other than "binding" is a waste of time/money.

In my situation, submission had to be sent in to the JDR judge 30 days prior to the hearing. Date was set up 6 months in advance so everyone had plenty of time to prepare. Also, because it is with a judge one doesn't want to play usual tactics of adjourning. No witnesses.... facts only. After reading about all of the case conferences, mediation sessions, useless 4-way meetings that people go through I am left with a great feeling of relief that I didn't have to endure that nonsense. Although I've had my share of post-divorce useless appearances with judge - this is something anyone can go through (trial or arbitration) if their ex decides continuously to try to overturn the final divorce Order. I think a JDR cuts the trial costs. The downside, in my situation, is it obviously left my ex feeling fairly flush and enabled him to continuously take me to court. This may appeal to people who can't get over the divorce and who want to stay connected with their through litigation?
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2016, 12:31 PM
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It's clear to me that because of custody issues, my case is to complex for arbitration. She wants me to be a "Visitor" to our children. Also, all the other outstanding items are an issue because she makes it being an issue. I want a fair 50/50 settlement but she wants an unfair 85% settlement. I have a higher income, a pension, benefits, I'm well insured (dead, I'm worth a million) and I already have a new life in a more than wonderful family. She has nothing of that to share (this is why she's greedy) and she was raised through a family full of hypocrites. She has good life insurance that I bought (good lord, I'll be beneficiary for the sake of the children). She wants to keep the house and buy my share at a very lower value than the appraisal.... this is obviously to much for a one day arbitration.
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2016, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SuzieSunshine View Post
I would think arbitration is the way to go, cheaper, faster and more private. But what I don't understand is there are only a handful of arbitrators in Ontario and hundreds of lawyers or mediators. Even Tayken's favorite mysupportworker.com no longer does arbitration any more, only mediation.
Simple... Arbitration requires a firm understanding of the law and especially case law generally. Most people go to arbitration and sign contracts that the existing laws (CLRA, FLA, FLR, etc...) all apply. Most people also contract that the Arbitrator has to consider case law.

Why? Because you can appeal an arbitration in the public court. Many complex arbitrations just end up in the public court system - especially those dealing with custody and access.

The reason you don't see social workers engaging in Arbitration anymore is because they have no knowledge of law and even less knowledge in case law. So, would you want a social worker who has NO IDEA about the rules about habitual residential location deciding in a matter where a parent has actually left the jurisdiction? What do they know about the city defined boundaries that define school.

They may have an opinion about reasonable amount of time a kid should be in a car on the way to school but, they can't determine what constitutes abduction in accordance with Rule 22.(3) of the CLRA (ON) and how it doesn't alter the habitual location of the child.

For example, in LF32's situation I would never want an arbitrator involved in that matter. The jurisdictional challenges regarding the child's residence is so complex only a judge could interpret and apply the law correctly.

For financial matters and nothing to do with child custody and access... Arbitration is fine. Even for small things like holiday access schedule determinations are fine too. But, to determine custody and access of a child upon breakup I would never recommend anyone attend arbitration over court.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2016, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
this is obviously to much for a one day arbitration.
And 15 days of trial... Be prepared. You are going to need to find compromises too. Some times it is better to give up something you can replenish (money) later in life. You can buy yourself a 50/50 full joint custody settlement. That is how the vast majority of them are settled out of court. Children cannot be replaced but, with hard work and dedication you can replace money.

You should make an offer to settle that can't be severed where you give the other party in the matter a very big carrot to do the right thing when it comes to custody and access. You may have to "buy" the other party's emotions to make sure the right things are done for the children.

Give this article a read:

When Math People and Feelings People Negotiate - High Conflict Institute

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #16  
Old 05-26-2016, 02:52 PM
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Good article Tayken

Thank you
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
And 15 days of trial... Be prepared. You are going to need to find compromises too. Some times it is better to give up something you can replenish (money) later in life. You can buy yourself a 50/50 full joint custody settlement. That is how the vast majority of them are settled out of court. Children cannot be replaced but, with hard work and dedication you can replace money.

You should make an offer to settle that can't be severed where you give the other party in the matter a very big carrot to do the right thing when it comes to custody and access. You may have to "buy" the other party's emotions to make sure the right things are done for the children.


I understand what you are saying and I have often seen it in several cases of separation. But in my situation, where my NFP is worth near 500K$ and hers is still under 200K$ (but not yet all disclosed), don't you think I could say that my contribution (the equalization payment) toward her will suffice to buy her emotions? Of course, what is bringing my net so high is related to my Federal Pension.

More to that... I feel I'm being penalized in the ending of our 15 years of mariage. while she was having a good time outside with her friends (and most probably boyfriends), I'm the one who was staying alone with my kids and doing all the housework. The money I earned was putted in the house. The money she earns went on spending a good time and buying luxury stuff for herself. I'm the one who got tired of all this and wanted her to act as a descent mother and spouse. Then she changed the locks of the house and prevented me from seeing my children. She then insinuates that there was domestic violence and I completely lose access to my home and my children. I search for help... None was provided. After the incident at work, it then took me over 10 months to clear my criminal charge and went 7 months without seeing my kids. My kids that I use to take care ALONE. Could we say that this has caused a turmoil in my life and that I would also be entitled to compensation? Can I asked that we buy my emotions? Or this is not allowed to my gender?

You see, I'm a finance guy and I consider myself to be the Math person. I did the calculation and I know I did it right and everything is there because I don't have anything to hide. But on the other hand, I've been emotionally f***g disturbed by her f***g lies and BS. It is very hard for me to just let go and let her have it her way. We must fight for our rights when the other side has taken advantage unfairly and dishonestly of the system to gain what they believe to be "theirs".

I'll maybe give a big carrot... but will ask for a nice bucket of potatoes for the sake of our children.

Being said, I know I will need to compromise somewhere as it is very common to my gender in Family Law. It may be about the matrimonial home but this will be possible only if there is a reasonable agreement for child custody. I've been with my kids more than 80% of the time, for sure I won't accept less than 50% as it is already an unacceptable drop.

By the way... my STBX is definitely without contradictions ... the emotional person.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2016, 09:48 AM
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Lawyers love people like you who have assets and who want to fight the emotional fight (compensation for her denying you parenting time to children). In the end the lawyers are the ones who make the money. Your ex may have lived large throughout your marriage but essentially you endorsed it as you stayed in the marriage for 15 years.

The law is pretty clear that child custody/parenting time is separate from finances. So don't go there.

Court will view that money you both earned went into your marriage or "lifestyle" and that you both benefited. How you both specifically spent the money through the marriage will have no relevance in the end.

Houses are replaceable. I'd be more inclined to protect the pension. However, I do not know details of your situation.

Regarding custody - she would take a pretty big hit (if child custody were to be determined by trial) for lying and denying you parenting time. I would consider requesting a large amount of make-up time starting this summer perhaps? Are you considering sole custody with generous parenting time to mother?
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2016, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
It's clear to me that because of custody issues, my case is to complex for arbitration. She wants me to be a "Visitor" to our children. Also, all the other outstanding items are an issue because she makes it being an issue. I want a fair 50/50 settlement but she wants an unfair 85% settlement. I have a higher income, a pension, benefits, I'm well insured (dead, I'm worth a million) and I already have a new life in a more than wonderful family. She has nothing of that to share (this is why she's greedy) and she was raised through a family full of hypocrites. She has good life insurance that I bought (good lord, I'll be beneficiary for the sake of the children). She wants to keep the house and buy my share at a very lower value than the appraisal.... this is obviously to much for a one day arbitration.

FYI - arbitrations don't have to be wrapped up in 1 day. If you have all of your financials it doesn't take long at all. I think your financial situation would be fairly straight-forward. Arbitration might be a consideration if you can resolve the child custody issues beforehand. I don't know much about deciding child custody through Arbitration. If I find some information I will either post it or PM it to you.

The only thing I see "complicated" about your situation is the ability for you and your ex to keep your emotions out of things and to proceed in a fact-based, logical manner.
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Lawyers love people like you who have assets and who want to fight the emotional fight (compensation for her denying you parenting time to children). In the end the lawyers are the ones who make the money. Your ex may have lived large throughout your marriage but essentially you endorsed it as you stayed in the marriage for 15 years.

The law is pretty clear that child custody/parenting time is separate from finances. So don't go there.
Arabian, I am not going there. I was being sarcastic and was just Venting. I know Finance and custody/parenting time are two different things. I know I will lose a lot and will have to share more as my NFP is higher. I'm OK with that as I have long time ago disclosed all my finance stuff. The problem reside on the other side. 30% of her finance have not yet been disclosed and we asked numerous times. Now I decided to send Form 20 for disclosure of financial documents as per Tayken's advice. And for her wishing me to be a Visitor to my children... she can poke her eyes with her own fingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Court will view that money you both earned went into your marriage or "lifestyle" and that you both benefited. How you both specifically spent the money through the marriage will have no relevance in the end.


Houses are replaceable. I'd be more inclined to protect the pension.
All my offers to settle clearly stated that she could keep the house if my pension could stay intact. Now with the debts I accumulated because of her unwillingness to settle, I have no choice to ask for the equity of the house, by having it on the market (as she won't accept the value of the appraisal after agreeing to it until now) and to share half my pension. No retiring trip for me in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Regarding custody - she would take a pretty big hit (if child custody were to be determined by trial) for lying and denying you parenting time. I would consider requesting a large amount of make-up time starting this summer perhaps? Are you considering sole custody with generous parenting time to mother?
This is out of question. My parenting time is still set at a couple hours per weeks and I am still fighting for more time with sleepovers. Make up times will never be granted by a judge at this time as the children must slowly readapt to dad's schedule because they were away from me for a long period... What a ridiculous BS. They now treat our children like wild animals that must be approached securely. Wow... dad doesn't remember how to parent his children... and the children do not remember how to behave in front of dad... and maybe they don't remember dad at all? I like the mentality of the Court... tends to relate much like psychologists.
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