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  • "Forced" Family Wizard (or equivalent)

    Can you "force" someone to use a service such as Family Wizard with some expectation for success? My ex does not communicate.

    Relying on email to communicate was a very easy choice for me. I started doing this years ago. My ex stopped phoning me after I got a telephone conversation recorder. I purchased this to document and protect myself after my ex, his gf at the time, and her family would verbally threaten me. Text messages are rare and when they occur, are appropriate (sent on the road during travel for access).

    I've asked ex about subscribing to a communication software system via email and through lawyers when negotiating our divorce. Only once did ex respond by saying it was not possible because he does not have internet access at home.

    No one seemed to agree with my thoughts that free internet is readily available in the community and my communication was already email based. I never bothered to mention that ex is a frequent Facebook user (he uses it to communicate with our oldest kid).

    It would be nice to have a reliable communication tool to use when there is some child-related information to share or disclosure to give.

  • #2
    In our case Wizard was recommended by the judge. We don't like it but it has its pluses like you can never change or delete what you've sent, which is great. We use it because it was "recommended" by the judge (it was said with the tone and look that is more order than a recommendation) and neither party wanted to look bad by ignoring it.
    Last edited by Mother; 12-08-2013, 02:54 PM.

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    • #3
      There have been cases where OFW has been ordered. I believe not too long ago someone posted something along the lines that the excuse of not having access to internet would not fly with smart phones and free wifi all around, plus libraries have internet available.

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      • #4
        I have to wonder about family wizard. How does it change things between the parties? I've looked at the online information and I've also had private PMs with others who are dealing with such HCPs (as are we) that the other person refuses to give their user name after signing up. Honestly, I think that would happen with us, the other party is waaaaaaaay to HCP.

        We get email after email, after email, after email about some things and then absolutely nothing on other things despite many requests. The problem with the emails we do get, they are hard to understand and change so many times over that it is hard to figure out what is being said and what was agreed to. Of course, the emails we don't get anything back about are normally when she finds herself in a corner and can't talk herself out of it, or she needs to provide us something (like her input on something, or her benefit information or signing a letter to travel, etc.). I can't see how using OFW would change things personally. I think what actually needs to happen is that SHE needs to change lol.

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        • #5
          I think what actually needs to happen is that SHE needs to change lol.
          That may be, but you have no control over that, and you don't have enough time or energy in your life to even try.

          How does it change things between the parties?
          Often the conflict surrounding HC parties is the issue of control. Some are masters at emotional manipulation to get what they want. They bully over the phone, where their webs of lies and deceit go largely unrecorded, thus unnoticed and unpunished. They fire off questionable texts, hoping to draw you into another of their battles, and then once you engage, you are often labelled by them as being the hc party.

          Does OFW change things between the parties? It can- depends on how you use it. It does allow the non-hc party to communicate effectively without being manipulated/ bullied, giving them a chance to break free of the conflict as much as possible, and show they can effectively communicate regarding their children. The HC party may behave better, because they know they are "being watched". No deleting emails, denying you read something, etc.

          If both parties use it as a tool to try to bait and engage the other parent, then it is no more useful than anything else. Often HC scenarios are a bit of both parents being involved in the conflict. If you don't try to change, don't expect any more from the other parent.

          There have been a number of great posts and advice on this forum on identifying and dealing with high conflict ex's. Search and read. Then do it again. There is lots of help with this topic.

          How to approach the Family Wizard scenario?

          Document your communications, as they historically have been. The communications you have as evidence - do they show manipulation, bullying, lying, "Sorry - I didn't get that email/ text/ etc."? Any evidence of communication problems can help you in your request with the judge.

          Try to get your ex to sign up on consent. Maybe even offer to pay their share (it will cost you an extra $100 I believe). If they turn it down, then you will need to seek out an order for it.

          If you feel they will not use Family Wizard, or not pick up/ respond to emails frequently, you may need a carefully worded order. It should specify that Our Family Wizard is to be the primary tool for communication between the parties in matters regarding the children.

          You may want to include that text messaging should only be used for issues of a scheduling nature, within x hours of access exchanges. Phone calls to be used for emergency basis only, such as emergency medical issues requiring immediate attention, that could not otherwise be dealt with effectively via Family Wizard.

          Specify who is to pay for Family Wizard. Specify how often the parties are expected to check for messages, and expected response times.

          With a carefully written order, with clear, stated expectations and measurable timelines, it will be enforceable at a later date if the other party decides they don't want to use it anymore, or just ignores the order. Saying "Both parties to use Family Wizard for their communications" isn't enough to be enforceable.

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          • #6
            I'm on the fence about this...

            Mom says she doesn't check her emails frequently. Which of course is nonsense. She is on her phone constantly she just picks and chooses what she responds to.

            She does bait us into lengthy conversations via email. We use the "reasonable test". Meaning, we give info per what a reasonable person would want to know. Often times, she goes overboard wanting to know every stop/place we will visit while on vacation, our complete itinerary to every sight we will visit, etc. for instance. Even sometimes down to the sleeping arrangements, which is ridiculous to say the least. These communications we just ignore. She also asks for the same info over and over and over again.

            We also need to justify everything. Recently we asked for her group health coverage info for kids. It was refused unless we justified why we need it. There is only one reason we'd need it: for the kids health benefits! lol

            Ah, nothing is easy these days. Nothing. And everything.

            I think she just needs a hobby. A hobby different than emailing dad every five minutes about something she already has the info on. And to not expect us to be accountable to her for our every move when the children are with us. It is incredible the sense of entitlement some parents have and for no just reason.

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            • #7
              Mom says she doesn't check her emails frequently. Which of course is nonsense.
              Perfect scenario for requesting OFW. Takes the guesswork away for you, wondering if they read the email.

              She is on her phone constantly she just picks and chooses what she responds to.
              Even better reason to require all communications go through OFW.

              She does bait us into lengthy conversations via email.
              We've all been there. With practice you will get better at resisting to respond.

              These communications we just ignore.
              See, you DO have the ability to ignore unnecessary communications... now all you need is to get better at it, and a court order to back you up.

              There is a lot to be said for the concept that people will behave better when they think they are being watched. OFW, imo, gives more of that sense than any other method of communicating, similar to both parties knowing they are part of a recorded telephone conversation.

              And if your ex is so high conflict, and out of control, that they still abuse communications through OFW - then you have an easy route to produce high quality evidence showing that too.

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              • #8
                So there is an audit trail of when messages are sent and received? How do you know when one is sent and received? Do you get an email alert sent to you to log in?
                Can you log in from your phone easily? I'm so curious now.

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                • #9
                  So there is an audit trail of when messages are sent and received?
                  OFW has a "Message Board" where all emails are stored. An Inbox and Sent folder, among others. When you open the Sent folder, there is a column indicating for every sent message, the date of its' first view by the other party. For any sent message, when you open it, beside the recipient's name is (First read: date). When you print the message, this appears as well.

                  Do you get an email alert sent to you to log in?
                  Not by default, but you can go into the settings and easily add it so that you get an email (it is virtually instantaneous) or text, when an action has occurred on OFW. The actions that you can set to receive notice of, are things like new messages, expenses being posted, calendar changes, etc.

                  Can you log in from your phone easily?
                  They have apps for iphone and android. I have the iphone app, and it works well for the basic features. If both parties have smartphones, there is no need for texting, etc.

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                  • #10
                    I do not have OFW but do use a read notification service. It's cheap and you can try it out before you sign up. You can do this now whithout the other party having to sign up or even know about it. It's worth a try...See if it helps....just answer what needs to be answered and ignore the rest.

                    Best wishes


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                    • #11
                      Which read receipt service are you using? And is it with Gmail or hotmail? Weird that they don't know you are using it...

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                      • #12
                        I know what I would need is a very clear and concisely worded order that explicitly states the responsibilities of both myself and the ex.

                        A means to document the transmission of communication is something I'd value. Yes, I do a good job personally but I cannot control the ex. I want to know if he has opened a message and if so when because he does not acknowledge anything.

                        It would also help organize/keep track of any disclosure of tax papers, receipts, access schedules, etc.

                        I know ex will resist. He will claim it is not possible because he does not have internet (all my correspondence has been email for years & I know he regularly uses Facebook). He will also claim that he cannot afford it (despite him making more money than me... He just chooses to spend his money in ways that I don't).

                        Forced to subscribe is a must for him. Compliance and enforceability of this compliance will be my hurdle. This is what has me procrastinating the effort to have this ordered... Will it be worth my hassle and expense to "force" him to subscribe?

                        I am just so frustrated with ex getting away with this panting dead possum act. I have walked away from virtually everything because it is just not worth the fight...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                          I am just so frustrated with ex getting away with this panting dead possum act. I have walked away from virtually everything because it is just not worth the fight...
                          Your ex has obviously found that his "panting dead possum act" works.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Serene View Post
                            Which read receipt service are you using? And is it with Gmail or hotmail? Weird that they don't know you are using it...
                            ReadNotify.com is such a service.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              Can you "force" someone to use a service such as Family Wizard with some expectation for success? My ex does not communicate.
                              You can obtain an order that communications be done exclusively through OFW.

                              L.L. v. M.C., 2012 ONSC 3311 (CanLII)
                              Date: 2012-07-19
                              Docket: FS-08-00340601-0000
                              URL: CanLII - 2012 ONSC 3311 (CanLII)
                              Citation: L.L. v. M.C., 2012 ONSC 3311 (CanLII)

                              Originally posted by Justice Czutrin
                              Each party shall be responsible for making day-to-day decisions for routine emergency medical care while J is in his/her care, and shall keep the other party fully informed, by Our Family Wizard, of any minor illnesses, emergencies, treatments, medications administered or prescribed while J is in his/her care.
                              This case law is the most extensive and well written one that incorporates OFW that I am aware of. I would read it.

                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              Relying on email to communicate was a very easy choice for me. I started doing this years ago.
                              To quote Justice Czutrin again and he agrees with you...

                              We have created methods of communication that include the traditional hard notebook, pen or pencil, and written communication log that travels with the child’s backpack or overnight luggage. There is also the more technologically current texting, emailing, tweeting, or internet based programmes such as Our Family Wizard.
                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              My ex stopped phoning me after I got a telephone conversation recorder. I purchased this to document and protect myself after my ex, his gf at the time, and her family would verbally threaten me. Text messages are rare and when they occur, are appropriate (sent on the road during travel for access).
                              Careful, recording creates an environment of miss trust between the parents. Also, today in 2013 (soon to be 2014) there is little communications that needs to be done viva voche between parents. 99% of situations can be managed over OFW. The communications in-person (on telephone too) should be limited to emergency room situations only.

                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              I've asked ex about subscribing to a communication software system via email and through lawyers when negotiating our divorce. Only once did ex respond by saying it was not possible because he does not have internet access at home.
                              Lame excuses for not using email / OFW. If you are before a justice and someone uses that lame excuse most (if not all justices) will eat them alive. You wan't to put yourself on the wrong side of a justice try to argue you don't have internet access at home. If you have a mobile phone it is probably likely that you have internet access on that device... which you take home.

                              I recently saw a justice in Brampton do just that. The parent stated they didn't have internet access. The judge asked if they could hold up their cell phone. Parent did... Judge asked what kind of phone it was... Parent told the model (iPhone 4G) and the justice asked if the parent had a data plan. They said yes. The judge then spent 2 minutes warning the person that lies will not be tolerated in the court room.

                              The judge then made an order that they are to communicate via email and that if the parent who claimed they didn't have internet at home didn't respond to a message in 24 hours that the other parent could make the decision in absence of the other parent's response.

                              Great way to get someone to have to respond and read their emails. Sad that people still try the I don't have internet at home. The judge stated that it is almost as good as trying to argue you don't have electricity at home...

                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              No one seemed to agree with my thoughts that free internet is readily available in the community and my communication was already email based.
                              A judge will agree with you more than likely. See the case law above.

                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              I never bothered to mention that ex is a frequent Facebook user (he uses it to communicate with our oldest kid).
                              Then, you know it is all an excuse. In fact, if you needed to bring it on motion, just bring that evidence forward that the other parent has internet access.

                              Originally posted by smileandwalkaway View Post
                              It would be nice to have a reliable communication tool to use when there is some child-related information to share or disclosure to give.
                              Well, you can simply provide it by email or sign up for an OFW account yourself and pay for his access too. Have them provide him the account information and then just post everything there. Send a with prejudice letter via registered mail to the other parent stating this is what you are doing.

                              Or, you can send letters via registered mail and state you are not responsible for items sent (read "lost") in the general post and kindly ask that all replies be done via registered mail.

                              Also, when you send a letter you should always:

                              1. Frame the problem.
                              2. Offer a solution.
                              3. Solicit the other parents feedback.
                              4. State a clear deadline (by Month, Day, Year at a specific time) that they have to respond by and if they don't you will assume they are in agreement and proceed with the recommended solution.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken

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