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  • handling costs

    Hi I have procedure questions about costs.

    Threats of assessing costs are used to bully.

    I am up against lawyers that threaten that I will be assessed costs, my own lawyers have used this threat too and I found later on that they were lying.

    Costs are never a sure thing and full reimbursement is not often. Judges decide. I have to be stronger on this.

    Step 1: I tell them I am going to file a motion unless they comply or agree.
    Step 2: After X days I file the motion and ask for costs.
    Step 3: They seek to agree and settle and have me withdraw the motion.

    Questions:
    1. How do I collect on the cost of filing the motion?
    2. If the tables were turned how do I avoid costs?
    3. What is a judge likely to asses costs for and what are they not likely to assess costs for?

    I will run into this as I am up against a lawyer and this lawyer is definitely not about playing it by the books or fair. They do bully.

    I really need help and experienced opinion here.

    thank you.

  • #2
    You’re right, costs are not always guaranteed. They are however always asked for in filings. But, not always guaranteed.

    How to avoid them? Be reasonable. Respond fully. Provide all necessary disclosure. Make an offer to settle immediately. Update the offer to settle as discussions/appearances are held.

    Costs are considered punishment for bad behaviour or for wasting the courts time. If you behave accordingly and dont waste the courts time, you protect yourself.

    Depending on the cost award and situation, you may be able to get them made into an order enforced by an agency. For instance, some cost awards can be enforced by the Family Responsibility Office in Ontario.

    Comment


    • #3
      Example between Bob and Mary via lawyers.

      Bob: "your client will provide disclosure for X"
      Mary: "no"
      Bob: "here is my form 20, if you don't disclose I will file a motion"
      Mary: silence.

      Bob's lawyer waits a month then files a motion for disclosure and asks for costs because it cost $1K to do all that lawyer stuff.

      Mary sends the disclosure and says the request has been met.


      What now, Bob eats that 1K?

      Comment


      • #4
        You need to put this in perspective. I have been embroiled in high conflict litigation for 10+ years now. During the first 8 years there were numerous motions filed and costs requested by both sides. Most of the time the judge reserved costs. Other times the judge said neither one of us would receive costs. Judges are hesitant to award costs during motions as this may inflame the conflict further and their goal is for parties to settle. If costs are awarded too soon they are afraid this will cause hard feelings and impede any chance of settlement. This reasoning is severely flawed however. In my case, the lack of costs or consequences for bad behaviour simply spurred my ex on to continue with his bad faith behaviour. It wasn’t until our 9th year of litigation and when we were headed to arbitration that costs were actually awarded to me. Unfortunately, you are never awarded 100% of your costs back even when you are the clear hands down winner. You only ever receive a percentage of your costs back. Then there is the whole issue of collecting your costs once they are awarded which could take up another entire thread.

        In your above scenario Mary would likely NOT have any costs award made against her. If the matter went to trial and she had a history of stalling the process in this manner, this could be brought up in argument re: costs. If this matter did not go to trial Bob would have to eat the costs.
        Last edited by Stillbreathing; 02-10-2022, 01:25 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by podric View Post
          Example between Bob and Mary via lawyers.

          Bob: "your client will provide disclosure for X"
          Mary: "no"
          Bob: "here is my form 20, if you don't disclose I will file a motion"
          Mary: silence.

          Bob's lawyer waits a month then files a motion for disclosure and asks for costs because it cost $1K to do all that lawyer stuff.

          Mary sends the disclosure and says the request has been met.


          What now, Bob eats that 1K?

          Yes because she provided the disclosure before getting in front of a judge.

          Even if you made it to a hearing where a judge could decide costs, they may not award them.

          There are a lot of posters on this forum who have been through years of court and right before the end the other party settles and they are out all the money they spent.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
            Yes because she provided the disclosure before getting in front of a judge.
            Not necessarily. The motion was brought for disclosure and costs, so even though 1 part of the claim settles, you still can move forward with only costs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
              Not necessarily. The motion was brought for disclosure and costs, so even though 1 part of the claim settles, you still can move forward with only costs.

              And the likelihood of success is?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                And the likelihood of success is?
                If it brings them into court and spend money on a lawyer it is a win, it only costs me time. If costs are given it is a bigger win.
                They are unfair and tricky people.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by podric View Post
                  If it brings them into court and spend money on a lawyer it is a win, it only costs me time. If costs are given it is a bigger win.
                  They are unfair and tricky people.

                  Here’s the rub. Fuck you actions like this clog up the courts and delay other matters that need that time. As much as you want to hurt your ex, how would you feel if your matter had to wait because of this? Plus you run the risk of costs for yourself!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here are some thoughts to consider:

                    1) Present an offer to settle ahead of filing a motion: Please provide disclosure by date X. If you do this by date X, then parties will carry their own costs. If you do not, then I will claim costs against your client.
                    2) Increase your chances of getting costs, by leaving the offer open for acceptance.
                    3) if you have more than one request, increase your chances of getting costs by making the individual asks in the offer severable.
                    4) Present the offer to settle as soon as possible

                    What you might do is, give the drop dead date and after the drop dead date engage a lawyer to do the paperwork.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                      And the likelihood of success is?
                      The same as any other motion or trial. Although, probably easier here as it's a simple procedural issue. If you're unreasonable and cause unnecessary costs, expect to pay for it.

                      Disclosure is a basic request which should be done freely before court begins. If you don't receive it, get it ordered at the case conference. If you didn't receive an order or need something new, it's a simile basket motion to request.

                      Disclosure is more simple but settlements happen all the time where costs are still involved - either agreed to or continued at court on that alone. Basket, regular, long or trial - the more work involved, the higher the costs. Of course most settlements agree to eat their own costs but when there is clearly one side in the wrong - waiting until last minute before agreeing will not save you.

                      Here�s the rub. Fuck you actions like this clog up the courts...
                      The motion is already in place, booked and filed. Settling last minute or continuing on costs alone does nothing for the clogged system made worse by anti-disclosures. Costs are in place to help prevent this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1. How do I collect on the cost of filing the motion?
                        If the motion is heard, costs will be decided. If you are awarded costs you collect it like any other judgment for a private debt.

                        2. If the tables were turned how do I avoid costs?
                        Offers to settle, and win the motion.

                        3. What is a judge likely to asses costs for and what are they not likely to assess costs for?
                        Every step in the case should have costs. Conferences are generally either completed with no costs awarded, or costs reserved in the cause (whoever wins at trial can claim for that conference). For motions, costs are generally addressed at that time.

                        What now, Bob eats that 1K?
                        In that case, those costs would be claimed as part of the overall costs of the case (ie: at trial).

                        Comment

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