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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 09-28-2010, 07:37 PM
manitobamoma manitobamoma is offline
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Question Section 7.. can someone help please?!

I am new to the form but have watched it for sometime now and was wondering if someone could give me some clarity on the Sec.7 (extra ordinary) subject. I have read over some threads and still feel somewhat confused. There is alot more to this than Sec.7 but here is the whole situation:



Common Law 4 years (separated dec 2008)
2 children

2009 Income 2010 Income
CP $22,000 CP $18,000 (est.)
NCP $40,000 NCP $67,500 (est.)

CS $618/mth CS $944/mth

Signed separation agreement in May 2009. $1200/mth CS to include Sec.7 expenses. CP waived spousal support in agreement NCP paid all family debts ($15,000+)and CP got only family asset being the family car.

NCP got laid off from work in June 2009. NCP parent got 2 lesser paying jobs to cover CS which worked out to $7,300/yr in 2009 and paid off debts of $10,000+ NCP seen children 1 time for 3 days/nights in 2009 due to high access cost and CP wanting debts paid so CP could buy house. NCP has access costs of $900+ per trip. NCP could not afford counsel to "vary" SA. Clearly the money was more important to the CP.

2010 CP getting married/expecting baby."Has a new family now" CP/NCP are willing to work towards a consent order regarding CS/Access/Sec.7. $15,000 legal fee's later for NCP (legal aid for CP as she lies and says she is not common-law) and NCP has not gotten very far. CS is figured out. Access is going to take a while as the CP has now involved counsellors for one child stating 'due to the NCP coming back into the childs life the child is now suffering from a personality disorder"

Had case conference, Judge blew NCP out of the water based on evidence.

Sec.7 is something that I need help with. It's not that I dont want to pay any but CP is already getting $11,000+/yr for CS plus she is living common-law and in any event marrying a new spouse where his income is est. $55,000+/yr. I still have $8,000+ in family debt to pay and my job consists of frequent lay-off's sometime 2-3 months. Additional money to the already $11,000+/yr she will be getting should be enough. Her claims for Sec.7 are as follow:

2009
Dance $228
Hockey $360 (she told me she got funding for this but now is claiming it)
Daycare $875 (claimed on income tax)

2010
Dance $554
Hockey$575
Daycare $1300
Dental work for 1 child (which was not consented by me) $500

total: apprx $4,300/2009/2010

CP gets $6,600/yr for CCTB and $1,200/yr for UCTB total $7,800/yr.

Here are my questions regarding sec.7 and the courts/or previous situations people have experienced:

1)in regards to CCTB/UCTB being applied against the claimant of a Sec. 7 expense claim, how does this work? does it get added to the receipiant's income when determining the proportion and how? or does it get applied to say the daycare expense incurred for the year?

2)what about the CP getting tax relief for claiming child care expenses. Would the courts generally take a certain percentage of that amount?

3)then there is the CP has now getting married (new spouse income about $55,000/yr), would the courts not look at both incomes as a household and set it against the "means" of the expense being claimed?

4)how does it work with the fitness tax credit the CP receives?

Basically I am trying to get the other side to set some of the family debts I paid and still continue to pay against the sec.7 claim being that once I pay taxes on my $67,500 and CS and take my access costs into consideration (I will never let CP talk me into paying things over seeing my children ever again..I know im stupid) I am not left with very much to live off of for my own cost of living.

Could someone please give me the break down on how a fair claim would be for sec.7?!

Thank you!
  #2  
Old 09-28-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
Sec.7 is something that I need help with. It's not that I dont want to pay any but CP is already getting $11,000+/yr for CS plus she is living common-law and in any event marrying a new spouse where his income is est. $55,000+/yr.
It is NEVER taken into account what another person brings to the household income, except where a claim of undue hardship has been claimed. In other words, get over her spouse's income


Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
2009
Dance $228
Hockey $360 (she told me she got funding for this but now is claiming it)
Daycare $875 (claimed on income tax)

2010
Dance $554
Hockey$575
Daycare $1300
Dental work for 1 child (which was not consented by me) $500

total: apprx $4,300/2009/2010
Daycare is a no win. Dance and hockey are arguable, but with that, you are only responsible for your share, after any tax breaks....and I find none unreasonable, but would want to know the ages of the children. I pay over $4000 for daycare for 1 child!! and that is before and after school!

Dance, having done it, is a very CHEAP amount, as is the hockey, so I would count your lucky stars, pay your share, then send a letter asking her to advise you prior to incurring further section 7 expenses, as they are getting too high for your budget.

To find out your % share, add both your income and hers. Then divide your income by the total income. (it ought to be 0.#######....) Multiply that number by 100 to get your %.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
1)in regards to CCTB/UCTB being applied against the claimant of a Sec. 7 expense claim, how does this work? does it get added to the receipiant's income when determining the proportion and how? or does it get applied to say the daycare expense incurred for the year?
Can't help. I have never gotten CCTB or UCTB... However, I am able to claim an amount of daycare for rebate on my tax return, and that depends on your province/territory/birth year of child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
2)what about the CP getting tax relief for claiming child care expenses. Would the courts generally take a certain percentage of that amount?
For example, I claim $4000 on my income tax, I receive a rebate based on my tax bracket. As I do not know how they calculate it, CRA would be the best one to speak to. Meanwhile, ensure your court order states that you are responsible for your proportionate share of any after-tax costs of childcare expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
3)then there is the CP has now getting married (new spouse income about $55,000/yr), would the courts not look at both incomes as a household and set it against the "means" of the expense being claimed?
SEE ABOVE. Are you actually suggesting it is someone else's responsibility before it is YOUR responsibility? If you feel that way, bring a claim of undue hardship. Only then would the court even CONSIDER a new spouse's income with respect to YOUR child(ren). However, you may have a claim on the family debt and high access cost...although, with an income of your level, your access costs are not that high...how often do you see the children?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
4)how does it work with the fitness tax credit the CP receives?
Same way as daycare. Talk to CRA. You will also want to ensure, since you are paying for s. 7 expenses, that you share income tax each year, as well as notices of assessment and reassessment.

Last edited by InterprovincialParents; 09-28-2010 at 08:07 PM.
  #3  
Old 09-28-2010, 08:25 PM
representingself representingself is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
Common Law 4 years (separated dec 2008)
2 children

2009 Income 2010 Income
CP $22,000 CP $18,000 (est.)
NCP $40,000 NCP $67,500 (est.)

CS $618/mth CS $944/mth
I don't understand your numbers... is that Net vs Gross?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
Signed separation agreement in May 2009. $1200/mth CS to include Sec.7 expenses.

CP waived spousal support in agreement NCP paid all family debts ($15,000+)and CP got only family asset being the family car.

NCP seen children 1 time for 3 days/nights in 2009 due to high access cost and CP wanting debts paid so CP could buy house.

NCP has access costs of $900+ per trip. NCP could not afford counsel to "vary" SA. Clearly the money was more important to the CP.
Who moved away? Was if you or the CP? Your Separation Agreement is less than a year old, so you will have to first prove a material change. I believe you losing your job would qualify.

You make three times her salary, and she waived spousal support over $15,000. Sounds to me like a fair deal, but I don't know much about spousal support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
2010 CP getting married/expecting baby."Has a new family now" CP/NCP are willing to work towards a consent order regarding CS/Access/Sec.7. $15,000 legal fee's later for NCP (legal aid for CP as she lies and says she is not common-law)
Not sure about the laws in Manitoba, but in Ontario you must live together consecutively for 3 years to be considered common-law. Your relationship with her ended in December 2008, so she would not be legally considered such.

She would be automatically considered common-law after their child is born.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
and NCP has not gotten very far. CS is figured out. Access is going to take a while as the CP has now involved counsellors for one child stating 'due to the NCP coming back into the childs life the child is now suffering from a personality disorder"

Had case conference, Judge blew NCP out of the water based on evidence.
How old is the child? If you were only together 4 years then he/she must be a toddler, and as such, would not be diagnosed with a "personality disorder".

What kind of evidence are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
Sec.7 is something that I need help with. It's not that I dont want to pay any but CP is already getting $11,000+/yr for CS plus she is living common-law and in any event marrying a new spouse where his income is est. $55,000+/yr.
Her new spouse and his income are irrelevant, unless you are planning on pursuing a claim of undue hardship. Considering your income of $67,000/yr, you wouldn't qualify and you would be wasting your time.

They are your children... not his, so leave his income out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitobamoma View Post
I still have $8,000+ in family debt to pay and my job consists of frequent lay-off's sometime 2-3 months. Additional money to the already $11,000+/yr she will be getting should be enough. Her claims for Sec.7 are as follow:

2009
Dance $228
Hockey $360 (she told me she got funding for this but now is claiming it)
Daycare $875 (claimed on income tax)

2010
Dance $554
Hockey$575
Daycare $1300
Dental work for 1 child (which was not consented by me) $500

total: apprx $4,300/2009/2010
You consented to the activities but not the dental work?
Unfortunately for you, dental work is considered a necessity, so you are responsible for your proportional contribution.

Your situation seems alittle convoluted to me, and you need to clarify a few things.

You make decent money, the s7 expenses do not seem unreasonable, and between both of you, you should have the means to provide for the children.

You agreed to give her custody of the kids, and as such, you agreed to give her all of the benefits of same (tax relief, CCTB, etc.)

You signed the agreement less than a year ago....???
  #4  
Old 09-28-2010, 08:32 PM
manitobamoma manitobamoma is offline
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All I wanted to know was how Section 7 was determined with tax credits and such. There is way to much information to even get into here I was just giving a summary as to what was going on. I never once said anything about her new spouse being responsible for my children. I asked if the courts took that into consideration. Thats all!

I guess I shouldnt have posted on this site considering how my thread just got picked apart.

However, thank you for your comments.
  #5  
Old 09-28-2010, 08:34 PM
manitobamoma manitobamoma is offline
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and for the record to representingself :we have joint custody
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:38 PM
representingself representingself is offline
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simmer down sassy pants....

Your thread didn't get "picked apart", you put a ton of confusing information together, and I was just trying to sort through the mess.

YOU were the one who asked about the fact that your ex has a new man and YOU were the one who brought his income into the mix.

I just pointed out that HE has nothing to do with YOUR responsibility for YOUR children.

You want a bunch of tax advice... get an accountant.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:39 PM
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and for the record to representingself :we have joint custody
Then quit refering to yourself as the NCP which means Non-custodial parent..
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