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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 07-14-2011, 03:28 AM
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Default Family Court ate another man today in family court!

I am disgusted, disappointed, and discouraged.


Based on lies, failure to provide Documents, and heavy hitting, my fiance is now forced to pay so much he will no longer be able to afford to keep his job as it requires travel expense, or lose the house, or I don't know what.

Why is it disclosure only applies to us? Or ROE's and paystubs have to be submitted by us? Since when is it law for one and not law for another?

She made up a daycare amount. Lied about her second job. refused to disclose recent income info or previous financials. Refused to sign an affidavit stating she had no further assets yet we who followed every letter of the law have been hit with a mammoth day care on top of a grossed up pension to bring him to paying her well over 1/2 of his take home pay.

There is no way we can afford assessor now and it feels like we have been swallowed up and spit out. I don't know what the future holds for us for for the children.

Do we just say fine take sole custody and give up?

Do I say go live with your parents, sell your house and see you in 12 years when the kids are all grown?

His debt is already high. Now how can he even afford his lawyer?

I've never seen him so crushed.

Good to know their sociopath mother can afford more than her usual 4 holidays a year now.

Canada you should be ashamed of yourself! You have taken a once military hero and turned him into pulverized dinner for a narcissistic wench to feed off of.



No Karma found today.
  #2  
Old 07-14-2011, 11:06 AM
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And did your lawyer bring up any of that in court? If not, sounds like your lawyer didn't do his job properly.


Define mammoth day care? How many kids? What's she making "officially".
Start doing some pro se motions to have her provide her financials or kick your lawyer in the ass and have him start moving on discovery.

You can't fight this if you don't have the proper information. Request her Notice of Assessments, request receipts for childcare and/or pay your portion of the provider directly.
  #3  
Old 07-14-2011, 12:46 PM
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Sorry to hear karma, specially since you are a second wife/gf whatever trying to be there and stay strong for dad and kids. I am with NBDad though, your lawyer didn't do his job plus, this was just a cc. They are supposed to scare dad into giving up...its the easiest recourse for the court. I also agree you need a motion. Cc's are useless, get a motion on the table before trial. Stop listening to what everybody wants and, doing that...listen to what everybody doesn't want and start feeding them that. Her lawyer is obviously feeding the court "she's the greatest mom on earth speech"...it's your job to create doubt.

Judges training is secret so, they can perpetrate this type of social engineering without public repercussions or, oversight. Judges also know that they can get away with all kinds of schit during cc's so, if the judge steps over the ethical bounds...they are not held to the higher standards set during motions.

Nobody likes a squeaky wheel, you just haven't found your squeak yet. Hang in there..
  #4  
Old 07-14-2011, 01:35 PM
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A recent Globe article reflects most of Canada's view. Why Canada needs a split from its messy divorce laws - The Globe and Mail

NBDad, SillYMe, How can any of you claim his lawyer didn't do their job ? Were you there? Do you believe that whenever another family/father/man/Canadian gets raped in family court it's their lawyers fault? People routinely get these results with top shelf $750.00 hour lawyers that don't miss a beat.

The news article is an accurate one. More compelling is the over 600 comments in reply. Read them and weep.
  #5  
Old 07-14-2011, 02:56 PM
Pursuinghappiness Pursuinghappiness is offline
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Karmaseeker: I'm sorry to hear about your fiance's court battle. I hope you guys are able to get through the turmoil ok and stay together.

Staysingle: I read the article you attached. It was very interesting...thank you for posting it.


However, If I could say one thing regarding this thread...and this forum...its that there seems to be a ongoing hint of misogyny that I find kind of annoying.

So far, during my divorce process...things have been at least fair..if not skewed to my stbx's side in financial matters. That being said, I have no issue whatsoever paying my fair share for the upkeep of my children.

The reason that most mothers are awarded custody is frankly because "generally" its still true that mothers bear the brunt of the childcare and household responsibilities. I know there is a growing percentage to the contrary..but I'm talking in general. While men are swiftly catching up socially to shared responsibility in the home..there's still inequity. In addition, men make more money in the workplace doing the same job as women. Again, I know things are changing in this regard....however, the law is always slow to catch up with new trends.

I'm not that old...and honestly, when I was a kid there was almost zero emphasis on father's being "good dads" ...a lot of these changes have happened within the last 20-25 years or so and the law has been slow to catch up.

In my case, during my relationship...I was responsible for modifying my career to nurse and take care of our newborns...and throughout our marriage I was the one who primarily dealt with all concerns with regard to the children. In the 15 years that I worked...my then husband never took a day off to watch one of our children when they were sick. I worked, cleaned, cooked, and took care of the kids. The only difference between me and my mom...who stayed at home with us children...was that I was also responsible to hold down a full-time career. If the house wasn't clean...if the kids weren't picked up on-time...it was my fault. My then husband considered his career more important than mine. Throughout my career, I've heard the same story over and over and over and over.

I'm kind of tired of the constant vague insinuations that all divorcing women are unreasonable or out to financially slaughter their husbands. In my case, I'm definitely not the one who avoided mediation and dragged my divorce into the legal system....my stbx ex did that in an effort to get back at me for having the nerve to divorce him after a horrible 20 year relationship.

Sometimes...yes, its the man who's a vindictive nutjob out to bankrupt his own kids...go figure.

Although I speak mostly in generalizations, I know this reply is going to result in a barrage of frothing angry men raging about how women are out to screw them and don't care about their children...but frankly, its a load of crap.

The entire divorce process sucks for both genders and isn't designed to hurt men. Although there have been attempts to make it more neutral (no-fault divorce), the system is designed to address the historical gender roles...isn't up to date..and ends up hurting children and families...regardless of gender. There is no "winner."
  #6  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBDad View Post
And did your lawyer bring up any of that in court? If not, sounds like your lawyer didn't do his job properly.


Define mammoth day care? How many kids? What's she making "officially".
Start doing some pro se motions to have her provide her financials or kick your lawyer in the ass and have him start moving on discovery.

You can't fight this if you don't have the proper information. Request her Notice of Assessments, request receipts for childcare and/or pay your portion of the provider directly.

We don't know what she is making officially. She REFUSES to do a financial disclosure in full.

She refused to provide a notice of assessment.

She refused to provide a ROE.


The judge believed her when she said she volunteers (her boyfriend is is boss) at her old work and judge just picked a mid point between what she was making and what she says she is making from just the one job now. This is not a woman who volunteers for anything! It is all about money money money. And lets not forget power.



Judge gave a order for disclosure or to provided reasons why not disclosing. This sounds like more run around. She is threatening if we keep demanding a complete financial disclosure she will go after his pension and after even more spousal. She got a lump sum of 30,000 in 2008 plus the matrimonial home. for which she short changed him of equalization because no lawyers and no financial disclosure. Judged warned of opening this can of worms and suggested dropping it. ??? Why does everyone else have do do a disclosure but her?

so with income of job that requires massive transportation costs of 1300 per month because is is Union and he could be contracted anywhere in ONT. plus a grossed up military she was awarded 1550. Our lawyer said not to push transportation as the judge would tell him to move closer to his kids. Who cares about transportation costs to get to work I guess.

Plus day care bringing him up to one averaged out monthly payment of 2100 because FRO needs a number.

So this means after take home after tax she is taking more than 50% of his wage. So he literally can not afford to drive to work. OR we move closer to his kids and pray the assessor gives us 50%) She is going for sole EOW. Or we sell the house and split up so he can live with his parents. and I would go back to mine to restart again. His debts are huge because of the legal fees and he can no longer cover the

My wage is just slowly growing as I am self employed and just moved here so I am building a client base in growing market but it is brand new here so people are slow in trying new things. Places like Toronto I'd be booked solid. I also have a son that was moved here only 2 years ago to join our families and is settled now. It is not fair to him - any of this. I may have to give up the career I put on hold til my own child was old enough to now cover the gapping hole. If I wasn't here he would have been in a shoe box a year ago as at least I have been bringing in a little to help with food and some bills are all my responsibility. I haven't paid on his mortgage because we agreed it was his house and I would have no claim to it should we split cause I don't want to do that to his kids twice.

She convinced the judge that to move the kids to a daycare that gave receipts would be to traumatic for the children as they are accustomed to this under the table woman. She also convinced him that she needs to pay this private babysitter regardless of whether or not the kids are actually in her care (as you would with a real daycare) no verification for this or for the 2 rates of pay (reg. /summer/) or 3rd rate - now that youngest will be full day at school.

She convinced the judge that she had a conflict of interest with our chosen assessor (a psychologist) because her old job as office manager of a clinic shared some patience. SO now we have some stupid game where she picks 3. We pick 3. We then each pick one off each others list and that the two top picks have to decide themselves who is better suited for the case. ???WTF? Talk about bias. "I am cause i need a new pool" "no I am cause I want an extended hols this year. " Is this monkey court???

It is so hard to see my wonderful man who is so strong, has served his country, get ruined by a vindictive b*tch who emotionally abused him in the first place and has had enough affairs to displace multiple families children.


Where the hell is justice? It is not in the Canadian courts.

Where is freedom to work hard, earn a decent wage, and have a decent life?
  #7  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyMe View Post
Sorry to hear karma, specially since you are a second wife/gf whatever trying to be there and stay strong for dad and kids. I am with NBDad though, your lawyer didn't do his job plus, this was just a cc. They are supposed to scare dad into giving up...its the easiest recourse for the court. I also agree you need a motion. Cc's are useless, get a motion on the table before trial. Stop listening to what everybody wants and, doing that...listen to what everybody doesn't want and start feeding them that. Her lawyer is obviously feeding the court "she's the greatest mom on earth speech"...it's your job to create doubt.

Judges training is secret so, they can perpetrate this type of social engineering without public repercussions or, oversight. Judges also know that they can get away with all kinds of schit during cc's so, if the judge steps over the ethical bounds...they are not held to the higher standards set during motions.

Nobody likes a squeaky wheel, you just haven't found your squeak yet. Hang in there..

I don't understand quite what you are saying. Sorry still shell shocked

Left with a settlement date in oct reliant on waiting til a assessment section 30 is complete before any more orders will be made.

I have no idea how we will get to oct.

yes, it may take a bit to sink in and make some forced decisions.

No squeaks here just post court stunned silence.
  #8  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:09 PM
dorano dorano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
Karmaseeker: I'm sorry to hear about your fiance's court battle. I hope you guys are able to get through the turmoil ok and stay together.

Staysingle: I read the article you attached. It was very interesting...thank you for posting it.


However, If I could say one thing regarding this thread...and this forum...its that there seems to be a ongoing hint of misogyny that I find kind of annoying.

So far, during my divorce process...things have been at least fair..if not skewed to my stbx's side in financial matters. That being said, I have no issue whatsoever paying my fair share for the upkeep of my children.

The reason that most mothers are awarded custody is frankly because "generally" its still true that mothers bear the brunt of the childcare and household responsibilities. I know there is a growing percentage to the contrary..but I'm talking in general. While men are swiftly catching up socially to shared responsibility in the home..there's still inequity. In addition, men make more money in the workplace doing the same job as women. Again, I know things are changing in this regard....however, the law is always slow to catch up with new trends.

I'm not that old...and honestly, when I was a kid there was almost zero emphasis on father's being "good dads" ...a lot of these changes have happened within the last 20-25 years or so and the law has been slow to catch up.

In my case, during my relationship...I was responsible for modifying my career to nurse and take care of our newborns...and throughout our marriage I was the one who primarily dealt with all concerns with regard to the children. In the 15 years that I worked...my then husband never took a day off to watch one of our children when they were sick. I worked, cleaned, cooked, and took care of the kids. The only difference between me and my mom...who stayed at home with us children...was that I was also responsible to hold down a full-time career. If the house wasn't clean...if the kids weren't picked up on-time...it was my fault. My then husband considered his career more important than mine. Throughout my career, I've heard the same story over and over and over and over.

I'm kind of tired of the constant vague insinuations that all divorcing women are unreasonable or out to financially slaughter their husbands. In my case, I'm definitely not the one who avoided mediation and dragged my divorce into the legal system....my stbx ex did that in an effort to get back at me for having the nerve to divorce him after a horrible 20 year relationship.

Sometimes...yes, its the man who's a vindictive nutjob out to bankrupt his own kids...go figure.

Although I speak mostly in generalizations, I know this reply is going to result in a barrage of frothing angry men raging about how women are out to screw them and don't care about their children...but frankly, its a load of crap.

The entire divorce process sucks for both genders and isn't designed to hurt men. Although there have been attempts to make it more neutral (no-fault divorce), the system is designed to address the historical gender roles...isn't up to date..and ends up hurting children and families...regardless of gender. There is no "winner."
You echo my sentiments exactly. I am a mother. But I'm also a rational reasonable person trying to do the right thing for the kids and using the knowledge I learned in my 10 year relationship with my ex, including 4 years of being parents together. I'm not trying to milk him, or get more than I need to survive with the kids. I'm even asking for less! In the end, I want to move on, I want him to move on, and above it all, I want the kids to be secure happy and healthy - and I'm always willing to examine what this means while being flexible.

*edited to add: That article is very interesting, and as mentioned, the comments speak volumes. Thanks for sharing!
  #9  
Old 07-14-2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
Karmaseeker: I'm sorry to hear about your fiance's court battle. I hope you guys are able to get through the turmoil ok and stay together.

Staysingle: I read the article you attached. It was very interesting...thank you for posting it.


However, If I could say one thing regarding this thread...and this forum...its that there seems to be a ongoing hint of misogyny that I find kind of annoying.

So far, during my divorce process...things have been at least fair..if not skewed to my stbx's side in financial matters. That being said, I have no issue whatsoever paying my fair share for the upkeep of my children.

The reason that most mothers are awarded custody is frankly because "generally" its still true that mothers bear the brunt of the childcare and household responsibilities. I know there is a growing percentage to the contrary..but I'm talking in general. While men are swiftly catching up socially to shared responsibility in the home..there's still inequity. In addition, men make more money in the workplace doing the same job as women. Again, I know things are changing in this regard....however, the law is always slow to catch up with new trends.

I'm not that old...and honestly, when I was a kid there was almost zero emphasis on father's being "good dads" ...a lot of these changes have happened within the last 20-25 years or so and the law has been slow to catch up.

In my case, during my relationship...I was responsible for modifying my career to nurse and take care of our newborns...and throughout our marriage I was the one who primarily dealt with all concerns with regard to the children. In the 15 years that I worked...my then husband never took a day off to watch one of our children when they were sick. I worked, cleaned, cooked, and took care of the kids. The only difference between me and my mom...who stayed at home with us children...was that I was also responsible to hold down a full-time career. If the house wasn't clean...if the kids weren't picked up on-time...it was my fault. My then husband considered his career more important than mine. Throughout my career, I've heard the same story over and over and over and over.

I'm kind of tired of the constant vague insinuations that all divorcing women are unreasonable or out to financially slaughter their husbands. In my case, I'm definitely not the one who avoided mediation and dragged my divorce into the legal system....my stbx ex did that in an effort to get back at me for having the nerve to divorce him after a horrible 20 year relationship.

Sometimes...yes, its the man who's a vindictive nutjob out to bankrupt his own kids...go figure.

Although I speak mostly in generalizations, I know this reply is going to result in a barrage of frothing angry men raging about how women are out to screw them and don't care about their children...but frankly, its a load of crap.

The entire divorce process sucks for both genders and isn't designed to hurt men. Although there have been attempts to make it more neutral (no-fault divorce), the system is designed to address the historical gender roles...isn't up to date..and ends up hurting children and families...regardless of gender. There is no "winner."

No offense but your timing of picking an equal rights argument is not exactly the most thoughtful of the primary poster - me - a woman!


To be frank - I really couldn't give a crap about what most men or most women do or don't do. I do however care about the fact that MY world is about to be ripped upside down - not at the hands of "most women" but at the hands of one narcsissistic sociopath that really doesn't give a crap about her own children and hands them off as often as she can or schedules their lives with so much that she doesn't actually have to parent them at all.

I'm sorry if you are irritated with the fact that a lot of men on here are so distraught at the fact that crazy women - not "most women" have ripped them of their very essence of being a man - the ability to provide. Maybe the sheer numbers of men that use these forums reflect society at large - maybe they don't. They do however reflect the fact that there are some women so hell bent on retaliation they will stop at nothing including abuse their own children to get their desired end.

SO yes this is my issue. My empathy lies with the dad's right's activists. Does this make me a misogynist? - I think not!

I am empathetic to women that get shafted too. That just isn't my personal cause or experience and I believe I am entitled to support dad's rights. Supporting one thing does not make you anti another. I believe the women's groups have enough supporters and don't need me.


I am sorry if I come off sounding angry or antagonistic but really the timing of this argument was not really ideal considering the cc was yesterday.
  #10  
Old 07-14-2011, 05:06 PM
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NBDad, SillYMe, How can any of you claim his lawyer didn't do their job ? Were you there? Do you believe that whenever another family/father/man/Canadian gets raped in family court it's their lawyers fault? People routinely get these results with top shelf $750.00 hour lawyers that don't miss a beat.
Because I've been thru the meat grinder that is family court. I had to get a handle on my own 450 dollar an hour attorney who kept throwing me to the wolves and agreeing to whatever just because he thought that I as the father couldn't win. He told me flat out on our first meeting that it couldn't be done.

He was literally the only lawyer who had a free opening in his client base. He *used* to be a real pitbull....now he's a pussycat.

Guess what...I did it anyway. It took a LOT of being very very firm with my expectations, and making myself informed of how things worked. It ruined me financially, cost me two different jobs...but I wound up with my kids 12 days out of 14.

When someone raises the issues that the OP did, and the lawyer didn't do ANYTHING about it...then yeah...the lawyer's screwing around. No NoA, no financial disclosure, no receipts or affidavits to prove the cost of childcare...yeah...THAT's lazy. Kick him in the ass, be very clear with what you want and make him do it...

Also, if it costs 1300/month in travel for work....and you're only bringing in < 4200 take home...time to get a better job? You could literally work for < 3000 take home and still be ahead. If HE moved then yes, the travel costs are his to bear. Choices/consequences, etc. That's NORMAL.

Child care costs should be split proportional to income, 550 a month in child care is peanuts. A registered day care would charge you 300+ a WEEK for 3 kids, part time.
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