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  • #31
    Originally posted by Janus View Post
    The mother here is fine. She had lost custody. Now she is set to regain custody because of the death of the father.


    This is a disaster for her children. Even though her ex is dead the mother is still posting full of anger. The kids are about to be yanked away from their stable home and forced to live with what appears to be a very unstable mother.


    I am honestly upset that we are helping this mother at all. I get that everyone deserves a fair shake etc etc but we are potentially screwing over some kids here.


    I've glanced at this thread a couple of times and each time it makes me question my values. As a forum, I think we have really fucked up. I can't know for sure, and I'm certain the mom will post that she is a wonderful person, but my gut feeling says otherwise.
    We can't know. True.

    But one way to look at it is that- just like criminal law- everyone deserves fair representation. Even the most heinous guilty people deserve proper defense in a court of law. The same thing applies to this mother. We don't know her circumstances- but , at minimum, she deserves some help navigating this system that is not set up to help self reps. And if the original custody arrangement was set up in the children's best interests- I guess we have to hope that it stays that way.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Janus View Post
      The mother here is fine. She had lost custody. Now she is set to regain custody because of the death of the father.


      This is a disaster for her children. Even though her ex is dead the mother is still posting full of anger. The kids are about to be yanked away from their stable home and forced to live with what appears to be a very unstable mother.


      I am honestly upset that we are helping this mother at all. I get that everyone deserves a fair shake etc etc but we are potentially screwing over some kids here.


      I've glanced at this thread a couple of times and each time it makes me question my values. As a forum, I think we have really fucked up. I can't know for sure, and I'm certain the mom will post that she is a wonderful person, but my gut feeling says otherwise.


      I don’t see any anger in her messages other than She was served with an affidavit that did not admit the custodial parent had died. If there is anger about access to her children it is warranted.

      My husband’s ex pulled a similar stunt by saying his kids were afraid to be with him. She even claimed that he was supposed to have supervised access. NOTHING was ordered and she had NO proof of this. Anyone can claim anything in an affidavit and many alienators claim the children are afraid to be alone with a parent. This has been ongoing for two and a half years. 12 and 8 are prime years for influencing behaviour. This woman didn’t wake up one day and say now I can file a motion to get them back. She has been working on this for three years and her ex has thwarted the process along the way.

      Yes there are details lacking and she could be a terrible person but the fact is the children are grieving and a parent who cared about their well being would say lets reach out to everyone to help with your grief. I never saw her as saying she wanted to rip them away from their habitual residence, just that she was fighting for ACCESS to them and now their custodial parent is dead.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        The mother here is fine. She had lost custody. Now she is set to regain custody because of the death of the father.


        This is a disaster for her children. Even though her ex is dead the mother is still posting full of anger. The kids are about to be yanked away from their stable home and forced to live with what appears to be a very unstable mother.


        I am honestly upset that we are helping this mother at all. I get that everyone deserves a fair shake etc etc but we are potentially screwing over some kids here.


        I've glanced at this thread a couple of times and each time it makes me question my values. As a forum, I think we have really fucked up. I can't know for sure, and I'm certain the mom will post that she is a wonderful person, but my gut feeling says otherwise.
        If she was just going to yank the kids from the stable home they are in then I would agree with you. She seems to have a more balanced approach to it though with making it a gradual process.

        People do have issues in their lives with mental illness etc. Some know they are having issues and get help, others do not.

        Just throwing this out there, if it was a male posting this, would you still have the same gut feeling?

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        • #34
          Mom is living a nightmare because the system is broken and the system has failed her kids. She has been chasing her tail trying to navigate a system that is broken and run by people who don't give a shit about the emotional and financial torture of divorce, especially for those who didn't bring it on themselves and who didn't sign up for it. I don't read any anger in her posts. She sounds stable, sound, and reasonable. The only thing she is short of is money for a lawyer. That is no surprise. The broken legal system is meant to drain you completely and fill the pockets of lawyers.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
            Mom is living a nightmare because the system is broken and the system has failed her kids. She has been chasing her tail trying to navigate a system that is broken and run by people who don't give a shit about the emotional and financial torture of divorce, especially for those who didn't bring it on themselves and who didn't sign up for it. I don't read any anger in her posts. She sounds stable, sound, and reasonable. The only thing she is short of is money for a lawyer. That is no surprise. The broken legal system is meant to drain you completely and fill the pockets of lawyers.

            Not only it is broken completely, it is based on a principle that has no legal definition. I am talking about "In the best interest of the child" principle:


            Principles in Determining Custody
            When a court decides a custody case, the same principles apply whether the case is decided under the CLRA or the Divorce Act. Under both statutes, the issue of custody is determined on the basis of the "best interest of the child". The CLRA lists a number of factors in section 24(2) that the court should consider when deciding what those best interests are;


            Factors in Deciding the Custody


            Section 16(8) of the Act states that, in making an order for custody or access,


            the court shall take into consideration only the best interest of the child of the marriage as determined by reference to the conditions, means needs and other circumstances of the child.


            The Act does not give a definition of the "best interests of the child", not does it direct the court to any specific factors to consider.


            How the heck can the system/law that does not give a definition to the most important principal it is based on work? It is broken from the point of view of the parents. it works perfectly fine for lawyers and judges. No matter what, their pockets are full of cash.

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            • #36
              Mother, you state is perfectly. In my case best interest of my children means to bankrupt me so I can't financially care for them on my own anymore. Oh but at least their father will be financially cared for... by ME. Since when does a grown ass adults need trump that of children???? Yes, a broken system that is enjoyed only by lawyers.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Janus View Post
                The mother here is fine. She had lost custody. Now she is set to regain custody because of the death of the father.
                No...the mother is actually not fine! Perhaps you should read all of my posts? I am worried sick about my daughters right now...literally sick to the point that I have not slept more than 3-4 hours a night and don't remember the last time I ate a real meal. But this isn't about me...this is about 2 little girls who have been and still are being emotionally and mentally abused. If my ex hadn't convinced me that I had to pay him before going back to court I would have fought back right away.
                My girls were doing great during visits and we were bonding. As a recent example: I had a full themed Harry Potter birthday party for my 14 year old and even hand carved a replica wand for her. When she walked in the house and saw the room she turned to me and her eyes lit up and she smiled so big! When she got back to her dad's she said she colored in her bedroom. That was the usual feedback from her dad... "they sat in their room and did crosswords or colored". I have no way of knowing whether they're really saying these things or if dad was making it up but I do know that their recounts of their visits is not true and I used to have pictures to prove it but they stopped allowing me to take pictures to the point of running away any time I had my phone in my hand!

                Originally posted by Janus View Post
                This is a disaster for her children. Even though her ex is dead the mother is still posting full of anger. The kids are about to be yanked away from their stable home and forced to live with what appears to be a very unstable mother.
                If you had read all of my posts, especially the last one, I said that the last thing I want to do is hurt them more because they just lost their daddy! I asked if sole custody to me but them living with her in their home during a transition to full time with me was a thing. I'm sorry that I won't just give my kids to this woman but as I said in another post there's a whole lot that would take too long to tell. My children are showing all of the symptoms of pas and not one professional involved will look into it beyond saying they don't seem to be coached.

                Yes, I'm angry! I'm angry that my girls are going through this and I haven't been able to save them. I'm angry that he died and left this mess knowing he knew the truth about what is really going on. I'm angry that he would hurt/allow someone to hurt his daughters for this long.

                I was married to him and had 2 beautiful children with him... I loved him as a man at one point and still as the father of my children. I am also grieving even if it's not acknowledged by anyone. My days are now filled with memories I had chosen to forget. My days are spent breaking down as soon as my daughter is gone to school and I'm alone.


                Originally posted by Janus View Post
                I am honestly upset that we are helping this mother at all. I get that everyone deserves a fair shake etc etc but we are potentially screwing over some kids here.


                I've glanced at this thread a couple of times and each time it makes me question my values. As a forum, I think we have really fucked up. I can't know for sure, and I'm certain the mom will post that she is a wonderful person, but my gut feeling says otherwise.
                I will never say or think that I'm a wonderful person because I'm not. I'm just a mom who loves her children and family. I've done things in the past I'm not proud of and don't want to excuse those things but I'm not sure that had I not been put through the hell he put me through emotionally and mentally (to the point that I've been diagnosed with PTSD after trying to commit suicide because I missed my baby girls and didn't know what to do or where to go) that I would have lived the life I was living. I went through therapy with a psychologist and dealt with what he had put me through. I grieved the loss of our marriage and family then and now I'm reliving it. I'm stronger now and have good support though.

                Him and his girlfriend on the other hand claimed to have never once even an argument. How true do you think that is? His girlfriend has also proudly admitted to punishing my girls with no sugar for a week if they walk on the living room floor without slippers because they will leave footprints!

                You can believe your gut, every professional put in place to help my children has also chosen not to believe me or help me. I know the truth and my entire family knows the truth and even my kids and their step mother know the truth. Their dad knew the truth about everything but died allowing people to believe his story and now how do I go against the word of a dead man who has been deemed a saint?
                How dare you tell people they shouldn't be helping me save my girls! I need help and I'm asking anyone who will listen!!!

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                • #38
                  One thing I’m having a hard time with is that no professionals are believing you on the parental alienation... children’s lawyer, psychologist, doctors, judges? None of them are believing your story. I have no doubt you know your truth, but when many professionals are siding with your ex... one has to wonder what’s really going on.

                  Given the custodial parent is no longer available to be the custodial parent, I do think you will gain custody of your children, as long as you are capable of caring for the children’s needs... but I also think it might be a long battle. You’re dealing with a teenager that, by your own words, is alienated from you. A judge is going to take everything into consideration. A lawyer is absolutely required. You need someone to keep emotions out of it. Please don’t try to do this alone . You are far too emotionally charged (rightfully so).

                  Have you spoken to the children since their father’s passing? How often did you see the children before his passing? When’s the last time you saw or spoke to your children?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                  • #39
                    We don't know what kind of shit this stepmom is telling those kids. Maybe the kids are secrete!y hoping their mom will save them. Now that their dad is gone maybe these kids are hoping to be rescued by mom. I like the let the ocl know what's happened. Perhaps now the girls might speak freely if they have been afraid to before. Heart breaking!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      So sorry to hear you are going through this. Take a deep breath.

                      According to your posts your ex had custody and you were the non custodial access parent with unsupervised access. Plus you have custody of a child who lives with you. You have been fighting for your children for the past few years in family court because you love them and want them in your life.

                      Your ex has suddenly passed away.

                      Now your children are living with a female non biological relative who was your ex’s girlfriend. Your ex’s death changes everything. His girlfriend is likely grieving as well as your children. Have you tried reaching out to her and offering your condolences? Asking if there is anything you can do to help? Bringing a meal over? I know it might be hard with all you’ve been through but sometimes it’s easier to catch a fly with honey instead of vinegar. Taking the high road by being compassionate in the face of your own grief is a classy thing to do even if it’s not received well...plus you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised. His girlfriend is likely reeling from his death as well as you.
                      This could be a golden opportunity for you to raise the bar and set a fantastic example to your kids.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                        One thing I’m having a hard time with is that no professionals are believing you on the parental alienation... children’s lawyer, psychologist, doctors, judges?

                        None of them are believing your story. I have no doubt you know your truth, but when many professionals are siding with your ex... one has to wonder what’s really going on.

                        Given the custodial parent is no longer available to be the custodial parent, I do think you will gain custody of your children, as long as you are capable of caring for the children’s needs... but I also think it might be a long battle. You’re dealing with a teenager that, by your own words, is alienated from you. A judge is going to take everything into consideration. A lawyer is absolutely required. You need someone to keep emotions out of it. Please don’t try to do this alone . You are far too emotionally charged (rightfully so).

                        Have you spoken to the children since their father’s passing? How often did you see the children before his passing? When’s the last time you saw or spoke to your children?


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        There has been only CAS who got involved because of many false accusations of my spouse and I abusing our now 4 year old daughter, accusations of both of us drinking during access visits, me driving after drinking, him drinking in the vehicle, both of us yelling at all 3 girls during access visits, if I told either daughter not to be rude it was turned into me calling them names...the list goes on. I've been walking on eggshells and jumping through hoops while he wasn't following his part of any orders. He got away with it somehow. I wish I could explain because it baffles me my entire family as to how nobody can see through either of them. But then again I married him and had children with him and didn't see any signs of what was going on since literally day one. It wasn't until after we separated that 6 different women contacted me to tell me he had been with them and the stories he told them, things like I had post partum depression and emptied the house while he was at work. I lived with him and fell for his bullshit! It's very traumatic when you realize you had been living with a stranger for 6 years!

                        She's a great manipulator too...they put on a good show together.

                        The OCL isn't involved any more...she did her assessment and closed the file.
                        CAS and the OCL looked for brainwashing...basically asked the girls if someone told them to say things. I gave the OCL info on PAS and asked her to take a closer look. She came back with "the children don't appear to be coached".

                        They've both been brought for counselling several times. The counselling is usually for a very short period or not at all because "they don't need it" is what my ex would say the counsellors said.

                        They brought my 10 year old in twice claiming she was suicidal because she asked what happens when you die one time and another time what's it like to be dead (it breaks my heart that she is more than likely wondering that same thing right now) The counsellor said she wasn't at risk and closed the file. I found out about this through a settlement brief months later. Nobody thought it important to let her mother know. There's just SO much it's sickening and it's exhausting.

                        I do believe that they want someone to do something and I hope they can see I'm trying.

                        I want a psychological assessment done but I can't afford to pay for it so I'm not sure about that either.

                        As for the judge seeing it...he hasn't seen any of my evidence yet. The lawyer I had in the beginning didn't submit anything I asked him to and really made it seem like I just wasn't being allowed access when I told him my fears. Half of the time he didn't even answer my emails with questions or info.

                        When I' said I feel invisible I meant it...kinda messes with your head a bit when nobody seems to hear anything you're saying.

                        The last time I physically saw my girls was August 26th at the exchange spot when the 14 year old refused to get out of the car and the 10 year old sat in the backseat with the window up looking upset. The step-mother told me that day that she wasn't going to sit in the parking lot all day and her exact words were "I'm not part of this deal" before she got in the car and left with them. The next day I was served with a notice of motion to terminate access completely.

                        I've noticed a pattern where if I say or do anything to upset her or make her uncomfortable she lashes out by having him contact his lawyer or calling cas. That's what scares me about her...I'm worried about what she'll do if she's faced with losing my girls...would she hurt them? Take.off with them? It terrifies me and I've expressed this to the OCL and CAS and again it's been brushed off.

                        If nobody around me was also seeing what I see I'd think I'm just crazy too but we all see it!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Stillbreathing View Post
                          So sorry to hear you are going through this. Take a deep breath.

                          According to your posts your ex had custody and you were the non custodial access parent with unsupervised access. Plus you have custody of a child who lives with you. You have been fighting for your children for the past few years in family court because you love them and want them in your life.

                          Your ex has suddenly passed away.

                          Now your children are living with a female non biological relative who was your ex’s girlfriend. Your ex’s death changes everything. His girlfriend is likely grieving as well as your children. Have you tried reaching out to her and offering your condolences? Asking if there is anything you can do to help? Bringing a meal over? I know it might be hard with all you’ve been through but sometimes it’s easier to catch a fly with honey instead of vinegar. Taking the high road by being compassionate in the face of your own grief is a classy thing to do even if it’s not received well...plus you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised. His girlfriend is likely reeling from his death as well as you.
                          This could be a golden opportunity for you to raise the bar and set a fantastic example to your kids.
                          She has not answered or returned any calls.

                          She seems to have a hate me for unknown reasons. I have good reason to hate her (she was the camp cook at one of his jobs) but decided a few years ago to forgive him and her for my own good.

                          She won't even make eye contact with me and any time I've had to text her while he was at work I've been overly polite and received either one word answers or none at all.

                          I do hate her now for what has been done to my children though. That will never be forgiven. However, I could and would get along with her for the sake of my daughters. I'd hide my feelings for her in front of them just as I have for the past 9 years. I'm accused of speaking badly of him and her to the children but have never.

                          I wish it were that easy.

                          The person my ex was with when he went into cardiac arrest is actually my son's father's wife. It was her who called me. Her and my son's father have invited me for christmas dinners, I've driven her to the hospital when she was in labor, etc. We have a great relationship. I'm actually very easy to get along with.

                          Just in case anyone is wondering about all these different kids and fathers: my son is turning 25 next month and his dad and I dated in high school and I had him at 19. We spllit because we were young but besides a few tiffs at first we've always got along. I had my 14 year old 10 years later and my 10 year old took over 2 years on fertility drugs. I had my 4 year old with my current partner and am done...she's been an adventure to raise lol. Super smart mixed with attitude!

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                          • #43
                            The other thing to consider is that if the girlfriend is in fact overly attached to your children and high conflict herself, it may actually be better for your kids for you to ask for the return of your children with no access to the girlfriend. This applies even if your children are attached to her. I know this because in addition to all my own children, I also was awarded custody of my granddaughter ( my son was 16 when his then 16 year old girlfriend had her). My granddaughter had been placed in foster care for 18 months and was attached to her foster parents and visa versa). CAS told me not to have anything to do with the foster family and make the break instant and clean with them as this was better for my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter
                            This was their standard policy with all adoptions as well. In my case I ignored their advice as I got along well with the foster family and we have become great friends over the years and to this day I still allow contact with my granddaughter which has been nothing but positive. Your case is different in that the woman looking after your children is non communicative with you and the both of you historically do not get along. There may be no working together. If she is going to respond by ignoring you or enter into high conflict court litigation over the children then it may very well be in your children’s best interest for you not to allow her any co tact whatsoever once you have custody. You should speak to CAS about this. No matter what you do know that your children need you now more than ever.

                            I also have PTSD as do all of my children plus my granddaughter was traumatized. I do the best I can every day. My children’s PTSD behaviours have been extremely challenging for me to deal with at times and sometimes even trigger my own PTSD. I am left to deal with the carnage my catastrophically brain damaged ex heeped upon my kids. My matter is still ongoing in the legal system with no end in sight. The kids and I were re-victimized by the court system and it’s been over 8 years now.

                            So you see, others on this forum have also been traumatized by lengthy litigation. Remember that emotional pain is associated with time travel. You are either looking back at all the aweful things that have happened or forward and imagining the worst. Stay focused on the present.
                            Shut the door to the past and victim mentality, take a deep breath and step into the role of your children’s champion.

                            If you’ve reached out to the girlfriend and she’s ignoring you then that’s her bad. Move on to the next step. Focus on what you can control and let everything else go.
                            Have you made an emergency motion to the court to have your children placed in your care? Are you willing and able to take on that responsibility? The time to step up to the plate has arrived. You either do or you don’t. As for the fourteen year old, others here are correct. She can vote with her feet regardless. My thirteen year old frequently ran away and tried to commit suicide and I have full custody. Things are settling now but I never gave up on my teen and did the best I could under the circumstances. But if you don’t fight for her now it will negatively impact your relationship for ever.

                            The path you are on is still going to be bumpy, even if you had a great relationship with your two kids. Stop looking back at how aweful your ex and his girlfriend were and move forward. Rise up to the challenge. You are the only mother your children have. The girlfriend is not their mother, you are. You are also the only biological parent they have. Raise the bar and step up to the plate. You’re up at bat.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                              Just throwing this out there, if it was a male posting this, would you still have the same gut feeling?
                              This is a contest between a stepmother and a mother. I'm not sure which sexist angle you are trying to imply, because the party with a penis is dead.

                              Feel free though to look up my responses to fathers who come here complaining about PAS. Generally speaking I do not believe it. Normally, it is of not a big issue because people who claim to be victims of PAS usually will not get custody. This is less fun, because the martyr-parent is going to end up with custody.

                              The only moderately sexist thing I will admit to feeling in this case is that when a father loses custody, it doesn't mean much. Lots of good fathers lose custody. However, good mothers almost never lose custody. Mumma lost custody. I obviously cannot be sure, but forum posts are essentially ex parte proceedings and if I was a betting man I know where I'd be wagering my money.

                              I honestly do not see how I am the only one who sees her anger. Every second post has something about how her ex is terrible, the stepmother is terrible, what has been done to her is terrible. She is furious at the system and the girlfriend, and while she will play lip service to the best interests of her kids she wants that sole custody so bad you can taste it.

                              Anyhow, I don't want to point out what makes her look bad because it helps her clean up her image. I'm going to stop.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Janus View Post
                                This is a contest between a stepmother and a mother. I'm not sure which sexist angle you are trying to imply, because the party with a penis is dead.



                                Feel free though to look up my responses to fathers who come here complaining about PAS. Generally speaking I do not believe it. Normally, it is of not a big issue because people who claim to be victims of PAS usually will not get custody. This is less fun, because the martyr-parent is going to end up with custody.



                                The only moderately sexist thing I will admit to feeling in this case is that when a father loses custody, it doesn't mean much. Lots of good fathers lose custody. However, good mothers almost never lose custody. Mumma lost custody. I obviously cannot be sure, but forum posts are essentially ex parte proceedings and if I was a betting man I know where I'd be wagering my money.



                                I honestly do not see how I am the only one who sees her anger. Every second post has something about how her ex is terrible, the stepmother is terrible, what has been done to her is terrible. She is furious at the system and the girlfriend, and while she will play lip service to the best interests of her kids she wants that sole custody so bad you can taste it.



                                Anyhow, I don't want to point out what makes her look bad because it helps her clean up her image. I'm going to stop.


                                I agree with you actually... by the OPs own admission, the professionals don’t see her claim for PAS... no one believes her children are being coached. Her reasons for losing custody years ago seem to be because of mental illness. Which she’s received help for. I do see her anger in her posts, which is why I strongly suggest she obtains a lawyer before trying anything in the courts. Emotions need to stay out of it. Being the only surviving parent, I do see custody being awarded to her on that basis, as long as she’s stable, which is why she needs a lawyer


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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