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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 04-23-2018, 09:17 PM
sahibjee sahibjee is offline
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Default Judge suggested the other party to commit fraud?

So we were at a conference for a Motion to Change CS, ex doesn't want to pay CS and she starts murmring about her new child (3 years old, from next husband) being autistic for the reason for her not being able to work (the child for whom I seek CS is also a high functioning autistic.)

The judge says to ex: if you cant work full time or part time then go to your doctor and bring me a note saying that YOU are disabled. i'll allow you time to do this and then proceeds to write in her endorsement that the ex has to submit medical evidence to show she is disabled.

The thing is the Ex did not say she is disabled, nor did she write any such pleading about herself. she did write her other child being autistic but not herself, it seemed to me that the judge was asking the ex to commit fraud.

I'll admit i was not quick on my feet and didn't object right then and there. i was rather shocked and too stunned to react to that.

then comes the next conference date and the ex walks in with a "consultation request" that says the ex has " choronic microcytic anemia and iron deficency" and claims that she is disabled. (the consultation request does not mention anywhere that she is disabled.) the judge says "we asked her to provide her medical report and she did and its clear that she is unable to work so lets decide on this, she was ready to rule based on that "consultation request".

I argued that the note does not say that she is disabled nor is anemia a recognized disability, the judge goes "alright we will let you question her for 10 minutes and then we will decide, you can each have 20 minutes to prepare yourself"

I was shocked, this was a case conference and the judge wanted to turn it into an instant motion, it appeared to me that after successfully pulling a fast one (to help ex declare herself disabled) the judge wanted to pull another fast one to help out the ex. when we came back the judge called the ex to the witness stand, before anything else could happen I told the judge I came here for a conference and that I am not ready for questioning, the judge was mad and said she is reserving costs of the conference. and postponed the motion to 6 days later.

It seems like her mind is set to give the ex a leave from paying CS no matter what, what should I do?
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2018, 12:31 PM
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Janus Janus is offline
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An article you might consider reading

https://www.complexfamilylaw.com/blo...fairness.shtml

The adjournment might have made the above moot, but at least you objected.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:29 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Default Judge suggested the other party to commit fraud?

I would be speaking to someone at duty counsel about it. Or even ask a lawyer if you can. I am of the understanding that case conferences are to get the parties to agree not to encourage one party to commit fraud. You don’t have to agree to anything at the conference but I would be really worried about it being pushed to a motion.

Also, perhaps the masses can clarify, I thought costs aren’t ordered for conferences unless one party is specifically stalling or continuing to create delays? How is rejecting a fraudulent note a delay?

Last edited by rockscan; 04-24-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:39 PM
kate331 kate331 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
Retarded people with autism can even get jobs.
Ouch!! Its hard enough raising children with Special Needs, take it easy on this guy. It isnt easy being a single parent, let alone parenting a child with special needs, especially with no financial help from the other parent, that can help pay for treatments, some respite care or a better diet for the child.

I too have an Autistic child, he is not "retarded".

"The R-word is OFFENSIVE “The word retard is considered hate speech because it offends people with intellectual and developmental disabilities as well as the people that care for and support them".
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:42 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
Ouch!! Its hard enough raising children with Special Needs, take it easy on this guy. It isnt easy being a single parent, let alone parenting a child with special needs, especially with no financial help from the other parent, that can help pay for treatments, some respite care or a better diet for the child.



I too have an Autistic child, he is not "retarded".



"The R-word is OFFENSIVE “The word retard is considered hate speech because it offends people with intellectual and developmental disabilities as well as the people that care for and support them".

The ex in this case is claiming she has to stay at home with her autistic child from her second marriage and shouldn’t have to work to contribute to offset child support for the child from her first marriage. If she was male and said that cs was unreasonable because he has a second family, a judge would say too bad so sad. However this involves a woman and a crooked judge (it seems) which is where the outrage is.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:49 PM
kate331 kate331 is offline
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I realized that Rockscan, it just got my defences up. I hate that word "retarded". And couldnt keep my mouth shut.
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
I realized that Rockscan, it just got my defences up. I hate that word "retarded". And couldnt keep my mouth shut.


Understood. He was out of line for that and the comment about his coworker.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2018, 10:18 PM
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arabian arabian is offline
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from what you have posted, no one is asking anyone to "commit fraud" - judge is merely calling someone's bluff.

A "doctor's note" doesn't meet the standard at trial as evidence of incapacity or inability to work to provide for child support. I suspect the judge was merely giving your ex something to think about.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:21 PM
sahibjee sahibjee is offline
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Alright all, this is how it went down and the lessons I learnt along the way.

This may help someone who believes the judge is biased towards the other party.

Prep/History of the case:
I studied a lot, case law, rules and refreshed my self as much as I could.

I started preparing my questioning with one goal in mind: I am about to lose and I don't care about that, costs will be ordered against me. fine, $1000? sure. However I want to judge to face a review by the Judicial Counsel.

In my case the judge had been helping the ex against the rules for quite a few years by bullying me in conferences, i'd scummb to that bullying and the ex would get a favourable order because of the judge's help so there was history that i decided to use.

At the motion the Ex had come earlier and prepped a duty counsel to represent her. I was by myself.

Motion Day/questioning:
My questioning strategy was something like this: I had a lot of credibility questions and then the jack hammer as follows: At conference on X date You alleged XYZ and the Judge suggested ABC (illegal stuff the judge would pressure me into), it was pretty nice help from the judge right?

The ex couldnt really say no or she'd look like a d**k, and I was telling the truth so she had to say Yes, implicating the judge in process

I did this about 4 or 5 times, the judge kept trying to argue on the ex's behalf i.e: my question was "Para 7 of the court order asks you to provide your updated income disclosure within 30 days of the anniversary of that court order, which would have been X date of 2017. Did you provide your updated financial disclosure by that date? Yes / no?"

The Ex said: yes.
I said" are you sure?
the judge jumped in and said: "she told you that she isnt working, thats disclosure." I said: "Your honor so FRO will accept an SMS as a financial disclosure? how do i submit it to them?" the judge had no option but to shutup on that one but she kept juming in like that to assist the ex.

I wanted Yes or No answers, the Ex kept going into detailed stories about acccess in response to questions about support. I told the judge that time is being wasted but the judge couldnt care less.

Once the 30 minutes of questioning were over the judge cut me off and said: ok so how much income do you think we should impute to her.
At the conference she had said after questioning we could argue;
I tried to give my argument/closing statement but the judge didnt allow it. (what good is questioning if you cant argue based on the questioning? the whole point of questioning is to form an argument).

So i just said a few lines how the ex has admitted to fraud in her own statement, how she has sponsored her husband into the country taking his responsibility but does not want to take her child's responsibility and that the medical documents are simply doctor's notes and not a specialist saying she is disabled. And how i have demonstrated that the judge has already helped the ex a lot in the past few years and its time for that help to end and transfer towards our son.

Judgement:
I think the fact that the motion was being transcribed and my strategy of exposing the judge had a determining effect on her verdict. Her face said she knew what I was doing. In both of previous case conferences she was sympathizing and favouring the EX, during the questioning she was determined to help the Ex. But alas the the summery I presented to the judge showing how the judge has helped her past few times and that the EX agreed that the judge had helped her scared the judge quiet a bit.
A major part of my motion was Ex's past fraud, The judge completely ignored it and gave no ruling about it.
Even though the Ex worked from Sept - Dec of last year at 14% over minimum wage (we had company letter), the judge only imputed her min for Dec 2017 and ordered one month of CS based on that.
Going forwards CS is based on minimum wage.

I belive the ex got away with fraud and not following court orders but the motion was still in my favour since the Ex was asking that she should not have to pay any CS at all.

Costs:
This is the first time ever i asked for costs, the judge sent us out to discuss this with her duty counsel, I applied WorkingDAD's case and gave the other party my books, about $450 were out of pocket expenses and total of 29 hours of prep including 6 hours for the previous CC.
The other party argued the costs to be $100, I asked for $2500. was given $500 enforcable as CS.

The good news:
During her decision the judge admitted to helping the ex a lot in the past, as well as pressuring me into turning the CC into a motion at the last CC; This time i quickly added, your honor i wasn't ready as I had come for a CC. the Judge said you didn't need to be ready, the same material was available last time. I am hoping all of this was transcripted properly, the guy who was transcribing had come from a court on gerrard and wasnt really interested, I saw him take quite a few breaks and not type what the judge was saying.

However I will get the transcript and see if the interesting bits are in there, if they are, guess what the judge's admissions are going to a review board. The case started in 2011, i have had enough of judicial bullying, its time for it to end.

Good luck everyone.

Last edited by sahibjee; 04-28-2018 at 05:40 PM.
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  #10  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:32 PM
sahibjee sahibjee is offline
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Another thing that I think that made a difference (Even though it shouldn't) is that I was able to put in a word that the Ex (at age 30) was on her 4th husband and had colleced huge doweries from each husband and had at least kept all my belongings including substantial amount of gold.
The judge wrote in her endorsement about the 4th husband and etc.

Lessons I learnt are as follows.

1- Always have good record keeping of your and ex's materials. that helped me quite a bit.

2- (This one is very YMMV) Structure your questions to present your argument during the questioning; I hadn't done this and I wasnt allowed to argue after either.

3- Let the other party talk if they want to, they might just self incriminate.

4- Don't settle at conferences if the judge is bullying you and you know that the law is in YOUR favour.

5- Be very focused and quick on your feet, I wasn't very quick on my feet and that damaged me.

6- If the other party raises an issue that you have not raised in your original Motion to change; do respond to it. My motion was for CS, the other party's response had crap about access, My response was: this is a derailment and distraction, she did not seek judge's permission to introduce unrelated issues.
The judge however spent majority of the time dancing around access stuff at both case conferences and beacuse I did not respond the judge took the ex's false word on the access stuff and I got quiet a bit of scolding - I wish i had responded. Luckily the ex had setteled the access stuff through mediation on the exact same terms as we had in our last order and the judge couldnt do much about it.

Last edited by sahibjee; 04-28-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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