Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Parenting Issues

Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-03-2008, 12:12 AM
350_dad 350_dad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
350_dad is on a distinguished road
Default Access when living in different cities

Hi, I am new to this forum but have found the information I have read so helpful and also comforting.

Okay, here is my situation. My Ex (never married or common law) and I live in different cities ( I live in Toronto and she lives in Ottawa with our son). Our son is 19 months old. She is the one who broke off the relationship and at the time I was living with them in Ottawa. I also lost my job at that time and was forced to stay on friends couches for quite a while.

I secured a new job in Toronto and tried to start over there. Access has never been a problem as long as I am the one doing all the travelling (which is costly and tiring).

We both currently have lawyers now and I am requesting she meet me halfway between Ottawa and Toronto once a month so I can spend some time with my son at my home. Until now I have had to pay for hotel rooms in ottawa and the cost of getting there all on my own while also paying high child support.

She has let me have my son for 2 weeks last summer and a couple of other times in Toronto. Difference is I have met someone else and started dating. She no longer will grant access in Toronto.

What are my chances (judge decision) of having her meet me halfway once a month (2 hour drive for her, 2 hours for me) and then trying to get 4 to 5 weeks accesss during the summer, 1 week xmas, easter, fathers day, thanksgiving etc etc.

She is saying my son is too young to travel, meanwhile she has taken him to Asia for a month last year and has let me have him in Toronto in the past for 2 weeks.

The big difference is the new woman in my life.
  #2  
Old 01-03-2008, 02:03 PM
FL_Needs_To_Change's Avatar
FL_Needs_To_Change FL_Needs_To_Change is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 1,261
FL_Needs_To_Change has a spectacular aura aboutFL_Needs_To_Change has a spectacular aura about
Default

The chances of getting her to help with the issues surrounding access are very good.
Since both parents are to be willing to allow and encourage as much access as possible So the custodial parent acting in the best interest of a child would (should be) willing to help with access costs as well, and this would not increase your CS responsibility since it is the right of the child to have as much access as possible.

Get the ball rolling yourself; do not rely on her being “nice”.
I’m in the same situation as you and your new partner. I am the new “woman” that the ex doesn’t like and we made the mistake of not making the first move thinking she’d continue to allow access even after I became part of the equation.
Ask that she meet you have way and thereby incurring half the costs of access.
Since she has already allowed extended visitation in TO the option of not allowing access (for what ever reason) to you is Mute.

Since the child is so young the need to bond is huge and there is not a school schedule to contend with so I’d jump on the wagon with your lawyer now and get a firm and detailed access regime in place that could be varied once the child begins school. If you establish a good relationship, and get a firm schedule then the child expects them and comes to rely on them. Also this will avoid all the hassle we eventually had to deal with because we did not have a “detailed” access order. Our order had too much left to the decision of the “parent’s mutual agreement” and eventually it all fell apart as she grew increasingly difficult to work with. Access grew less and less as she slowly became completely cut off from any discussions about access with us.

Be the first to the punch is my best advice; provide all documentation on the fuel costs, lodging costs and entertainment. We too have had to stay in Ottawa to facilitate access and you don’t just sit in the hotel room staring at the walls. We had three kids to keep busy so it was taxing on everyone both emotionally and financially. Also explain that a hotel is not a good place to establish a bond with a child as they soon relate access to exciting events rather than time with dad (this was one of our mistakes). Soon we couldn’t afford the hotels so we made the return trip home, and she grew resentful as she (daughter) got older and soon didn’t want to visit because it was “getting boring” and it wasn’t as much “fun” any more. We asked for mom to help with travel she did for a bit then soon made excuses for why she couldn’t and since we didn’t have an order it was hard to get one since we were already establishing that we could facilitate access without her aid, that was mistake number two of many, many mistakes since we trusted that being “nice” and not “rocking the boat” would be the best way to avoid trouble with the ex. WRONG!!!!
  #3  
Old 01-03-2008, 02:56 PM
350_dad 350_dad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
350_dad is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi, thank you so much for the reply. This information was very helpful and encouraging. I will take your advice as I do want a firm access order in place. I was kind of surprised by the actions of the son's mother. I did not think she would react this way given the fact she has been in a realationship as well with another guy.

Fact is, she is not rational at this point and definately not acting mature.

My lawyer has started the court proceedings and I wanted to gauge based on others experiences if this is something I could hope could be accomplished. The mother has been using the excuse of the son being so young to travel. I think this is rather silly seeing as she takes him on road trips all the time. I was hoping to ask for once per month access in Toronto with 5 weeks in summer and a week xmas....

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.
  #4  
Old 01-04-2008, 08:00 AM
FL_Needs_To_Change's Avatar
FL_Needs_To_Change FL_Needs_To_Change is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 1,261
FL_Needs_To_Change has a spectacular aura aboutFL_Needs_To_Change has a spectacular aura about
Default

Make detailed documentation of the trips the mother and any extended family took the son on to deflect any attempt she may make that the reason for denial is that he is too young to make the trip.

My husband's ex also made that claim but allowed her parents to take the daughter to Europe for more than 2 weeks at a time on numerous occasions.

No need to be rude at court just be concise and to the point and if you can continually back up your positions and show her reasons are not valid since she allowed the same for other people and is only denying you, then you will look credible and credibility is the key in Family law when so much relies on the judges perception at the time. No one person (judge) can in a short court appearance know every detail so make sure you have a clear documented history too.

Good luck!
  #5  
Old 01-04-2008, 08:45 AM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,943
logicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Yahoo to logicalvelocity
Default

350_dad,

FL gives some excellent advise to heed. Your going to have to sell the judiciary on the extensive travel issue. Be sure to emphasize a few principles:
  • The length of the travels is not quality access time;
  • Child's right to know you for who you are in your own home;
  • When the special holidays mean something to the child - they should be shared between the parents after all access is the right of the child.
  • Child support is the right of the child and with that said you had no option than to move to a different city to fulfill this obligation.
  • My general feeling is the the court may not see Ottawa - Toronto as a problem for your young child on a alternate weekend access regime as it cannot be avoided.

Be reasonable and open minded and flexible when it comes to the future arrangements and be sure to emphasize this when speaking to the Judge.

A little flexibility will go a long way as the court will see it. Offer multiple solutions or arrangements.

lv
  #6  
Old 01-04-2008, 08:50 PM
350_dad 350_dad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
350_dad is on a distinguished road
Default

This has been great advice, I will start the documentation process straight away. I really appreciate the replies.

I don't plan to ask for alternate weekends but instead ask for 1 a month access and go from there. If all goes well I would hope for alternate weekend access.

This is encouraging. I will keep you posted on how it turns out but that could be a while as I just started the court documents preparation.

Thanks again.
  #7  
Old 01-08-2008, 02:00 AM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,943
logicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Yahoo to logicalvelocity
Default

350_dad,

[QUOTE] I don't plan to ask for alternate weekends but instead ask for 1 a month access and go from there. If all goes well I would hope for alternate weekend access.
[QUOTE]

Young children require more frequent access greater than once a month to form a bond. Once a month is insufficient to foster the relationship

See the following case law on young children access:

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/s...hlight=schmidt

Cases

Lygouriatis v. Gohm, 2006 SKQB 448 (CanLII),( 3 month old child) http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...006skqb448.pdf

Huffman v. Kuffner, 2003 SKQB 208 (CanLII),(19 month old)
http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...003skqb208.pdf

Cooper v. Cooper, 2002 SKQB 151 (CanLII),(two children – ages 1 & 3)
http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...002skqb151.pdf

Baird v. Webb, 2002 SKQB 518 (CanLII),(12 month old)
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlig...02skqb518.html

Terris v. Terris, 2002 CanLII 46107 (ON S.C.), (two children – ages 1 & 3)
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...anlii46107.pdf

D.D. v. A.S.S., 2004 BCPC 56 (CanLII), (18 month old)
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/doc...2004bcpc56.pdf

K.J.B. v. S.M., 2006 ONCJ 87 (CanLII),(two children - ages 2, 4) http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc...2006oncj87.pdf

Schmidt v. Haley, 2004 CanLII 34344 (ON S.C.),(21 month old child)
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...anlii34344.pdf

Szczecina v. Piatek, 2003 CanLII 2255 (ON S.C.),( 9 month old )
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...canlii2255.pdf


All these cases ordered alternate weekends.

lv
  #8  
Old 01-14-2008, 03:23 PM
350_dad 350_dad is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
350_dad is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi I tried accessing these cases but I get an error?

Are all these examples where the parents lived in different cities?
  #9  
Old 01-15-2008, 10:19 AM
FL_Needs_To_Change's Avatar
FL_Needs_To_Change FL_Needs_To_Change is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 1,261
FL_Needs_To_Change has a spectacular aura aboutFL_Needs_To_Change has a spectacular aura about
Default

I got an error too.

Click on "advanced Search, and type the case participants under the column "statute name"
IE past this: Szczecina v. Piatek, and then click search
And the case will come up for you to click on
  #10  
Old 01-15-2008, 08:01 PM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,943
logicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura aboutlogicalvelocity has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via Yahoo to logicalvelocity
Default

CanLII may have rearranged their database and the reason for the error.

Search the individual cases.

Baird v. Webb and Scmidt v. Haley were cases where the parents were located in different cities. Terris is a mobility issue case.

Lv
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Custody and Access Decision-Making and the Breastfeeding Child: Cavannah v. Johne WorkingDAD Divorce & Family Law 8 05-03-2011 10:55 AM
Have I given up my rights as a parent? brokendad Common Law Issues 3 11-05-2009 07:57 PM
Access when living in different cities Part 2 350_dad Parenting Issues 14 08-26-2008 06:01 PM
Case Conference Info tycooke Divorce & Family Law 9 07-12-2006 09:11 AM
Living Arrangements/CAS and Access Anne Parenting Issues 6 10-31-2005 05:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 PM.