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  • #16
    Originally posted by danzuchy View Post
    The OCL is there for the CHILD. It is the child's protection from two parents who become unreasonable and can't come to a fair parenting plan that is best for the child.

    OCL:
    Is it stressful? Yes
    Is it painful? Yes
    Will youlike the results? Nope. I didn't.

    Is the focus on the "best interest of the child" ? 100% it is.

    I have no doubt that any OCL investigator is 100% for the child and could care less about the warring parents. It's there job to find out what the real 'scoop" is. And the answer makes some people very nervous because the truth often hurts.,
    Yes, you are right. But this poster has not indicated that there is any high conflict, abuse or any othere reasone to involve the OCL. They are very selective with what cases they take. It is unlikely that they will take his case (based on the facts presented) and it will only be a waste of time and increase the status quo (which is now LESS time than he had before the CC!)

    Comment


    • #17
      Yes, after reading about the OCL on their website I have no idea why they (ex and lawyer) would even be talking about OCL. It is such a low tactic, especially for someone who claims to be highly trained and working in pediatric nursing. Simple fact, kids need to see a parent more than just two weekends in a month when possible.

      Lesson: never take someone's credentials as proof they know what is best. Use your own judgement.

      Comment


      • #18
        Actually, most lawyers will suggest OCL. It's a tactic to keep you from settling your case, thus earning them more money!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by billiechic View Post
          Yes, you are right. But this poster has not indicated that there is any high conflict, abuse or any othere reasone to involve the OCL. They are very selective with what cases they take. It is unlikely that they will take his case (based on the facts presented) and it will only be a waste of time and increase the status quo (which is now LESS time than he had before the CC!)

          It doesn't matter. OCL are there to do an independent assessment of what is best for the child. You may think you are the best for the child but the OCL may not.Your spouse maythn he's best but he may not be. etc. I think I look like Brad Pitt but most people tell me I don't.

          OCL is there to ensure nobody uses dirty tricks to develop a SQ and run with it. OCL isn't only for "high conflict" divorces. It's for divorces where the parents are being stubborn and an independent source is needed. If you have wo parents who thin they "deserve" sole custody how do you break that? With a trial? Sometimes. But OCL steps in other times. Would you rather a Judge decide in 2 hours or the OCL in 4-6 mths,?

          Sorry OCL didn't go your way but maybe "your way" isn't what's best for your child.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by danzuchy View Post
            It doesn't matter. OCL are there to do an independent assessment of what is best for the child. You may think you are the best for the child but the OCL may not.Your spouse maythn he's best but he may not be. etc. I think I look like Brad Pitt but most people tell me I don't.

            OCL is there to ensure nobody uses dirty tricks to develop a SQ and run with it. OCL isn't only for "high conflict" divorces. It's for divorces where the parents are being stubborn and an independent source is needed. If you have wo parents who thin they "deserve" sole custody how do you break that? With a trial? Sometimes. But OCL steps in other times. Would you rather a Judge decide in 2 hours or the OCL in 4-6 mths,?

            Sorry OCL didn't go your way but maybe "your way" isn't what's best for your child.
            Yes, OCL can take those kind of cases, but generally they are so backed up with high conflict cases that there is no availability for a case such as this. That's why some parents end up paying a private asssessor thousands of dollars to do an assessement. I'm not saying that this case wouldn't be a candidate, only that it doesn't stand a good chance of being approved because it would rank lower in their priorities.

            My OCL investigation is not complete. It was an abusive relationship, where my child witnessed abuse and my ex continues to be manipulative. I think having the OCL involved is the best thing for us and I am not looking for things to go "my way" at all. I didn't even ASK for what I wanted, but for what I think is best for my child. One who wants things "their way" does not encourage a 50/50 split between both parents, I did. Whatever the outcome and their recommendation, I hope for Damned sure it is what's best for my child.

            Comment


            • #21
              Hi BC and welcome to the Forum, First I can give you a little hope about OCL, we actually recently contacted them and they stated they will not get involved in any case at this point without a Court Order because they are extremely backlogged, second they are only really dealing with cases of neglect and or abuse. It could reccommended by her lawyer that you seek out a private child assessment which would cost you both. I could be mistaken but There may be a copy of the Case Conference Brief and or anything the Judge stated if he/she wrote it down in the continuing record, in which you can go to the courthouse and request to view it if you have the file number.

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              • #22
                I figure 'they' would not have the kids interests as priority, but I am starting to think I wouldn't mind getting a neutral third party involved. This situation is ridiculous, I am just so sick of the lying, I don't truly understand why the kids need to be dragged through all the crap - I mean I know why but I just don't get it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ConcernenedStepMom78 View Post
                  Hi BC and welcome to the Forum,
                  Thank you very much, ConcernenedStepMom78, by the way!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Just an update, OCL will represent my children in the ongoing dispute between both parents. I pray the kids' come first.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by baldclub View Post
                      Just an update, OCL will represent my children in the ongoing dispute between both parents. I pray the kids' come first.
                      I think you should read the following decision which is linked to WorkingDad's matter with regards to the OCL:

                      CanLII - 2011 ONSC 6451 (CanLII)
                      The Respondent was one of the most skilled and well-prepared self-represented litigants this court has seen. He was meticulously organized, and consistently demonstrated a working knowledge of the relevant provisions of the Children’s Law Reform Act, Family Law Act, the Courts of Justice Act and the Family Law Rules. Under cross-examination he was responsive but unflappable. His own cross-examination of the Applicant and the OCL social worker was respectful, understated – and at times devastating.
                      Read the decision (all 70+ pages) end-to-end. Especially the section where WorkingDad questioned the Social Worker. WorkingDad successfully identified SIGNIFICANT FLAWS in how custody and access evaluations are conducted. Pay very close attention to the detail of the questions given to the social worker.

                      Prior to even starting the OCL I would even consider handing the OCL worker this decision and ask them to review it prior to starting the investigation so they know the level of quality you expect from them.

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                        I think you should read the following decision which is linked to WorkingDad's matter with regards to the OCL:

                        CanLII - 2011 ONSC 6451 (CanLII)
                        The Respondent was one of the most skilled and well-prepared self-represented litigants this court has seen. He was meticulously organized, and consistently demonstrated a working knowledge of the relevant provisions of the Children’s Law Reform Act, Family Law Act, the Courts of Justice Act and the Family Law Rules. Under cross-examination he was responsive but unflappable. His own cross-examination of the Applicant and the OCL social worker was respectful, understated – and at times devastating.
                        Read the decision (all 70+ pages) end-to-end. Especially the section where WorkingDad questioned the Social Worker. WorkingDad successfully identified SIGNIFICANT FLAWS in how custody and access evaluations are conducted. Pay very close attention to the detail of the questions given to the social worker.

                        Prior to even starting the OCL I would even consider handing the OCL worker this decision and ask them to review it prior to starting the investigation so they know the level of quality you expect from them.

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken
                        And also tell them that you going to record your meeting with OCL and if they say no ask them to provide bases for their no...

                        PS:
                        Tayken I need to talk to you... Can you clean up your inbox please?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by WorkingDAD View Post
                          And also tell them that you going to record your meeting with OCL and if they say no ask them to provide bases for their no...

                          PS:
                          Tayken I need to talk to you... Can you clean up your inbox please?
                          Hi WorkingDad,

                          My inbox is clean and I sent you a message.

                          I highly recommend recording any interaction you have with any custody and access evaluator. They often forgo details and operate on "emotional reasoning". Also, ask them for copies of all the materials that they use to guide them through the process. Names of books they have read that they use as a guide etc, how they record observations (clinically say with ICD-10 or DSM-IV-TR).

                          They are generally Social Workers which are registered clinicians. Ask how their governing body guides the work they do and what obligations they have to their governing clinical body in the work they do and recommendations they make.

                          You can ask that all observations or "information" they collect have cogent evidence to support it and where they are making an observation to clinically code it against DSM-IV-TR or ICD-10 classifications. Just be polite and let them know they are a clinician and their clinical obligations as a Social Worker will be expected in whatever report they produce.

                          Make them act as they should, as a mental health worker and not some garbage bin for "emotional reasoning" and more hearsay. If they choose not to investigate something not it to them, ask them why they are not investigating and on what grounds etc.

                          Often times, these evaluators already enter their "investigation" with an opinion based on court records of what they are going to do. Don't be a robot but, make them do their job.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                            They are generally Social Workers which are registered clinicians. Ask how their governing body guides the work they do and what obligations they have to their governing clinical body in the work they do and recommendations they make.
                            Here are links to the "standards of practice" and other guidelines for social workers in ontario Code of Ethics :: Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers

                            See pp20-21 regarding what the documentation should contain. In particular, clear distinction between what the social worker was told (and by whom) vs what the social worker sees directly, as well as indicating the sources of all information received.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dinkyface View Post
                              Here are links to the "standards of practice" and other guidelines for social workers in ontario Code of Ethics :: Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers

                              See pp20-21 regarding what the documentation should contain. In particular, clear distinction between what the social worker was told (and by whom) vs what the social worker sees directly, as well as indicating the sources of all information received.
                              and Custody and Access Assessments

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I might have been busy but I seemed to have missed all the above posts concerning WorkingDAD's litigation and in particular the literature that Tayken posts the link to.

                                The OCL lawyer cancelled this evening because of the weather and after working long days and getting less than 5 hours sleep I thought I was going to get some sleep! Ha!

                                Question #1: Does the OCL lawyer call in the social worker if necessary? Is it the lawyer herself who will make that call?

                                Question(s) #2: Do you recommend any specific procedures for dealing with a lawyer as opposed to a social worker, while obviously still recording the interactions? Maybe just hold back giving the lawyer a copy of the CanLII?

                                Well, the decision in the CanLII is going to take even more reading but I will have a bit of time tomorrow also. Thanks to everyone above for the info, and WorkingDAD, I tip my hat to you!

                                Comment

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