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  • Section 7 Expenses

    How are these calculated? Are they to be split 50/50? Do child tax benefits come into play for certain things like child care?

    My boyfriend makes approx., $22,757 per year, while his ex wife makes $47,896 per year, she also receives $1009.95 per month in child tax benefits. She claims she spends $300 in child care costs per month, we have no issue paying our share, however, we beleive that only one child is at a babysitters, before & after school, while the other child stays with the ex's sister... this information came from the children, when his son mentioned another babysitters name and I asked him why he didn't go to the sitter that he had in the summer. He then proceeded to tell us that only he goes to the sitter because his sister goes to his Aunt's house to play with her cousins.

    Anyways, the question is, can we request that all section 7 expenses be proportioned as to income? For child care, can we request to pay the sitter directly, and obtain a receipt to ensure that the kids are actually going to a sitter and not just to her sister's house? Is he able to claim child care expenses?

    Seperate issue... medication/Benefits...
    She has benefits, and I have both kids on my benefits, along with their father, however, my benefits follow the National Formulary Drug plan (basically no name drugs rather than brand name drugs), my plan will cover up to 100% for no name drugs, however, will only cover 60% of brand name drugs... can we request that any medication the children require, follow the National Formulary Drug plan? and any drugs she purchases that do not follow the National Formulary Drug plan, the amount that is not covered must be split proportional to income... also, are all medications covered under section 7 expenses? I thought I read somewhere on this forum about $100 and above is considered section 7?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Section 7 expenses should be split according to income. In your case that means your side pays roughly 1/3.

    As far as the daycare/babysitting goes... this should be split according to income. She should be providing you with copies of receipts upon request.

    The statements of the children aren't quite "facts" in terms of court decisions. However if push comes to shove, you quote the children in an affidavit and you state that while you believe the children's statements to be accurate, at minimum you request the court to order that the other party provide copies of all daycare and babysitting receipts.

    The babysitting is ONLY a section 7 expense if it required for the other party to go to work. If it is for an evening so she can go out it doesn't count. While this might seem obvious, she may be using the same babysitter for both situations. You require the babysitter to provide full information about rates charged and the hours the children were in their care.

    You may not claim childcare if the other party has physical custody (over 60%.) If you have the children over 40%, you still may not claim childcare unless it is used during your time with the children AND during your normal access time. In other words, if you have the children from after school on Friday until you drop them off at school on Monday morning, this would be within the 60/40 threshold, but you would not be able to claim childcare costs *unless you were working weekends, of course.

    This means you will pay 1/3 of childcare costs but the mother will claim 100% of costs as a tax deduction. For this reason you should steadfastly assert that you are responsible ONLY for AFTER TAX childcare costs. If the yearly childcare costs are $6000, she would be paying appx $4000 after tax, so your proportionate payment would be $1320. (Note: these are estimates only; do a proper tax analysis.)

    Regarding benefits, your proposal is reasonable. If we are talking about an occasional presciption for strep throat or whatever, then you don't really have a huge case to make. If this is for medication that is required all the time, your request is reasonable. If this were me, I would make a formal request to the mother to ask for generic prescriptions for the reasons stated. This should be by registered letter with a follow up email restating the request. (Email is also time stamped and is admissible as evidence; having both is "belt and suspenders").

    If the mother refuses to co-operate, I would track the expenditures over the course of a year, so that you are able to show a pattern of behaviour as well as significant total cost. Present this to the mother at the time that you make a section 7 payment reduced by that same amount. Make sure you document everything as you go. Her only recourse would be to go to court, and because you have documented you would be in the stronger position. If we are talking a few hundred dollars, it's not worth it to her to fight you, and you have made your point and taken an assertive stance.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Mess... makes sense, and now time for him to sit down and write his letter.

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay...so my BF finally received a letter from the lawyer stating that his STBX is looking to recover costs for swimming lessons, which cost $63...would something like this not be covered under regular child support? Not to mention accordig to wages he would only have to pay $20.79...maybe its just me but this seems rather petty to be asking for?

        She also sent through a bill for $743.73 (which does not have a signature on it, or the dates the children attended, just the weeks ending) This goes from Jan 1 to July 1 (school babysitting). From her financial statement she states she received $100/month in childcare benefits... which means she would have received $700 from Jan 1 to July 1, making the outstanding balance $43.73... his portion $14.43...

        Am I correct on those numbers? Of course she disagrees that the childcare benefits should be deducted....sigh

        Comment


        • #5
          or is the 743 bucks after the 700 was already taken off??

          Comment


          • #6
            Our trial judge deemed that swimming (and many other expenses) were not section 7. She said that based on the amount of support and their household income that it wasn't necessarry for my husband to pay.

            Comment


            • #7
              The $743 is before any deductions, because at the time she was unaware that he was requesting that those deductions be used for child care and the left over split.

              As for income, as stated she makes approx $47,000 to my bfs $22,000... he pays $344 a month in CS.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                Okay...so my BF finally received a letter from the lawyer stating that his STBX is looking to recover costs for swimming lessons, which cost $63...would something like this not be covered under regular child support? Not to mention accordig to wages he would only have to pay $20.79...maybe its just me but this seems rather petty to be asking for?

                She also sent through a bill for $743.73 (which does not have a signature on it, or the dates the children attended, just the weeks ending) This goes from Jan 1 to July 1 (school babysitting). From her financial statement she states she received $100/month in childcare benefits... which means she would have received $700 from Jan 1 to July 1, making the outstanding balance $43.73... his portion $14.43...

                Am I correct on those numbers? Of course she disagrees that the childcare benefits should be deducted....sigh
                Wow. A letter from a lawyer regarding a $63 bill and $700 dollars. It just doesn't make sense that the other parent would bother paying a lawyer to send this.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #9
                  They are still going through the lawyers to have an agreement signed... like I stated the STBX feels he should be responsible for babysitting/child care expenses in full, not after she received benefits... she is fighting with him in regards to having to communicate on issues such as school and such, even though she agreeed to joint custody. School is the big issue as he was looking to the future and stated that parents would be responsible for post secondary expenses proportionate to income... she feels it should be 50/50 and that does not include any grants they may receive or the education savings plan we have in place for the children....

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                  • #10
                    I would push for any tax benefits to be taken off the top for child care expenses. (IE. UCCB...that IS what they are intended for after all).

                    Signed receipts from the childcare provider WITH a breakdown.

                    Alternately just arrange to pay the provider the amounts directly so he gets his own receipts.

                    vis a vis post secondary, it's a proportional split....HOWEVER it's commonly accepted that the child must pay 1/3 of the amounts AND should be applying for loans/grants/bursaries/etc to minimize the cost.

                    Typical calculation is Total cost = tuition + associated fees (from the course curriculum) + books (@60% of new since you'll be buying used where possible) + meal plan (usually mid range one) + cheapest residence cost + public transport (ie. bus pass) + 2X trips home at the cheapest method)

                    Now...subtract RESPs, loans, grants and bursaries.

                    If there is anything left, divide by 3. The child pays for 1/3...either via savings/part time work/etc.

                    The other 2/3 is then split proportionate to income between the parents.

                    Offer THAT...it's fair and reasonable. Once the child starts, you should then request that the CS be paid DIRECTLY to the child to help them with their 1/3 cost. He'll be oligated to pay it anyway, may as well have it directed to where it'll do the most good.

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                    • #11
                      We have no issue paying for post secondary for the kids...currently they are 6 and 3...by the time they reach post secondary they will have a fair amount in the RESP we have set up...I agree with you 100% that the children should be responsible for some costs associated... currently in the draft agreement it states that child support is paid directly to the child once they attend post secondary, unless they are staying at home.

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                      • #12
                        I've always wondered, why is the RESP taken off the top first before it's divided between child and parents? What if one parent put the bulk of the money in the RESP in the first place? Seems unfair.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                          I've always wondered, why is the RESP taken off the top first before it's divided between child and parents? What if one parent put the bulk of the money in the RESP in the first place? Seems unfair.
                          I agree with you Rioe, when it is our money going into this for the kids and she directly benefits from it as well, but in the end its in the children's best interest to have them attend post secondary... he has RESPs in their names, and I contribute directly to a Tax Free Savings Account... I guess the TFSA is really the way to go because it can be used for anything and can go towards his portion. But like I said, I understand what you are saying and it does seem unfair.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                            I agree with you Rioe, when it is our money going into this for the kids and she directly benefits from it as well, but in the end its in the children's best interest to have them attend post secondary... he has RESPs in their names, and I contribute directly to a Tax Free Savings Account... I guess the TFSA is really the way to go because it can be used for anything and can go towards his portion. But like I said, I understand what you are saying and it does seem unfair.
                            Furthermore, what about contributions made by other family members into the RESP like grandparents. They can claim the funds in the RESP as their property and withdraw them.

                            It is a rather complex issue I haven't seen addressed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              Furthermore, what about contributions made by other family members into the RESP like grandparents. They can claim the funds in the RESP as their property and withdraw them.

                              It is a rather complex issue I haven't seen addressed.
                              That is a good point...I know his parents opened RESPs for them when they were born, they put in $500 every christmas, so his son now has $3000 and his daughter has $1500...by the time they are 18 and ready to attend college we are lookig at $9000 each which was contributed by his parents...I guess when the time comes both parents benefit from other generous family members.

                              Comment

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