Communication Book vs. Family Wizard

[ByMyself]

You still have to call your children, even if she starts using OFW, I wouldn't count on her verbal hijacking to stop.
---------
If she hijacks a call, simply state you will respond via OFW and if she wishes to discuss this further she can do so over OFW.

This is moderately effective - sometimes I have had to hang up because the ex will not stop, and kids are present. Unfortunately, the kids get confused and think I am not wanting to talk to them.

The thing is - when OFW was being used regularly - these calls were never an issue - the ex very rarely tried to call me. And on the occasion when they tried to hijack a call - simply saying "email me" consistently got the point through that I didn't want to talk.

How often to you have your children and how often do you call them?

I have EOW with midweek overnights plus a bunch of holiday time. So generally, I don't push the phone calls to kids very much (because of this issue), and because there is a max of one week between access periods usually. But there are times when the kids call me, and the ex tries to get me into a conversation too.

I am considering sending a letter requesting that my calls with the kids be uninterrupted, and making sure the ex understands that I am calling only to speak to the kids, and nothing more. It would be nice to be able to call the kids without having to deal with confrontation on the other end, which the kids are, at one point or another, bound to witness.

[arabian]

Don't most kids have their own cell phones nowadays? Can they not call you when they are at friend's houses or at school? I realize that might be a band-aid solution however if they are pre-teens they probably want to have a conversation with their parent without all the drama and interrogation of the other parent.

I'd be adamant about the OFW especially if your children are young. If it takes a few trips to court for contempt then so be it. You have an existing order which should be adhered to by both parties.

Regarding the interference of non-custodial parents, just say you are obligated to obey the existing order, etc. and won't entertain communication which is in violation with of said order... go on to say "Thanks for your assistance but the situation is what it is." 3rd party involvement is unfortunately an issue many parents have to deal with on a daily basis.

[MS Mom]

We tried a communication book for a couple of weeks - as per OCL recommendations. The ex used to call our daughter while she was at my parents house and have her make daycare arrangements for his parenting time. He forced her to be the go-between and OCL was not impressed with it.

I like the idea of the book, but, in the wrong hands (like my ex's) it's a very bad idea - especially if the child is of reading age.

First note in was - daughter has a dentist apt on DAY, TIME. It was his day to have the child, so he had to take her. The first note he wrote in back was - NO, I'm not taking her.

The only other note he wrote in it was that he didn't plan on picking her up again. Ever. Not something she needed to read.

[AnarX]

First note in was - daughter has a dentist apt on DAY, TIME. It was his day to have the child, so he had to take her. The first note he wrote in back was - NO, I'm not taking her.

It sounds like you scheduled an appointment on his day without FIRST checking with him.

Book, internet, Facebook, telephone, smoke signals, whatever.... if people want to manipulate with a smile on their faces, they will figure a way around to get to it.

[ByMyself]

if people want to manipulate with a smile on their faces, they will figure a way around to get to it.

Correct. The objective here is to keep them in a forum (OFW) where they know they are being "watched/ witnessed" a bit more, and perhaps their behaviour will be a bit better - aka. communicating about the children without involving them.

[good_mom]

It sounds like you scheduled an appointment on his day without FIRST checking with him.

Book, internet, Facebook, telephone, smoke signals, whatever.... if people want to manipulate with a smile on their faces, they will figure a way around to get to it.

Parental responsibilities are for both parents and sharing of the information should be done. You assume with the example given that the other parent does not do a share of the appointments.

If he/she objected a simple note in return...I cannot make it on the date, are you able to take her? Or he/she could call and reschedule themselves.

Appointments for medical and dental can be at times difficult to get the exact one that is convenient. <O</O
<O</O

In my situation, we rotate the appointments....so if either one of us are at the dentist and we schedule the next one it is share and the other parent can change it if it is not at a convenient time for that parent.

Some people need to take a situation and solve it instead of making a mountain out of it.

[MS Mom]

It sounds like you scheduled an appointment on his day without FIRST checking with him.

Book, internet, Facebook, telephone, smoke signals, whatever.... if people want to manipulate with a smile on their faces, they will figure a way around to get to it.

The appointment had been scheduled for several months as check ups normally are. It was scheduled for a weekday as, at that time, he didn't have week day access. He requested it court, received it. It was a matter of chance that the appt was on his day. He was given a week + notice. And, he could have just rescheduled it if it were a problem. The biggest issue was probably that he didn't know where the freakin dentist was since he's never taken her to an appt before.

The book was meant to facilitate communication about the child to the parents. Children have appts - plain and simple.

I'm sure my idiocy over - god forbid he should take her to the dentist - is the reason he dumped her altogether too. Right?

My point is kids don't need to read nasty bs about themselves from their parents. And if your ex can't help themselves by keeping nasty crap out of the book - it's doing much more harm than good.

[AnarX]

I'm sure my idiocy over - god forbid he should take her to the dentist - is the reason he dumped her altogether too. Right?

No, I am sure this is only one tiny fraction of the whole story but big enough to paint him in bad enough light.

You never told us (or him perhaps??) how much the dentist visit was going to cost nor did you tell us who was responsible for paying the bill.

My point is that it takes 2 to tango. If you knew he did not know where the dentist was located, you could have written that in the book.

[MS Mom]

No, I am sure this is only one tiny fraction of the whole story but big enough to paint him in bad enough light.

You never told us (or him perhaps??) how much the dentist visit was going to cost nor did you tell us who was responsible for paying the bill.

My point is that it takes 2 to tango. If you knew he did not know where the dentist was located, you could have written that in the book.

Too funny. There would be no dental costs except dad refused to submit paperwork to his insurer. Just because he's cooperative like that. As it happens, I've covered 100 percent of medical costs DESPITE her being insured to the max. You see coordination of benefits requires cooperation.

I said I was guessing he didn't know since he's never bothered with that aspect of parenting before (and he didn't take her anyway - I did). Simple to ask rather than just outright refuse.

It also makes NO DIFFERENCE what I did - he didn't need to write what he chose to write about her for her to see. There is no excuse for that.

[arabian]

I have to say that I like what I've heard about the Our Family Wizard mode of communication. Encouraging that many justices recommend it and instruct parents to use it.

High conflict sorts probably would like it as it sounds as though it minimizes their ability to create conflict. It sounds as though the program also lends itself well for corroboration when someone is behaving badly.

[MS Mom]

I agree arabian. But as the OP is learning it only helps facilitate communication, it doesn't "require" it. Its preferrable to a communication book - especially for older kids and can be extremely useful for coordinating access etc.

A difficult person will still find a way to be difficult no matter how many coordination systems are in place.

[Serene]

I'm going to go out on a limb here: I see many people in this post and others that use attempts at humour when humour can often be interpreted as sarcasm. I might not be popular for saying this, but bio-mom in our situation does this and it really clouds the air when legitimate attempts are being made to have meaningful and relevant conversation. Yes, it is possible that the individuals that post here don't communicate like that with their ex and only use these humour/sarcastic tactics here, but I'm willing to bet that isn't the case. I point this out because this is where communications turn bad.

I will also say appointments are a pain in the ass for us. Dad and mom agreed to rotate responsibility but it turns out mom can't do the majority of her fair share because of her employment in child care. She works longer days than the average person and it is difficult to coordinate alternative care for however many people are in her centre. This is all understandable. What is problematic is that she is infuriated if dad cannot take the children to an appointment and step mom does (me). She also demands to know who will be taking them when in fact sometimes we decide that the day of the appointment. I don't get it - if she wants to take them - take them. If she can't, we always do and we have never complained. We always share the info via email within minutes after an appointment.

Sometimes she shows up at the appointment. She hasn't in a while now but she used to do this rather often. And yes, it is her right to show up. I'm not the logic in this, but it is rather upsetting that we took a day off work to take a child to an appointment when she said she couldn't take them and then she shows up anyways. These aren't monumental appointments, these are teeth cleanings or whatever. And then there are the times that are rightfully her turn to take them and she can't, but then she shows up for the appointments that were our responsibility anyways.

And then there is the whole issue of which house was called if a doctor reschedules an appointment. It infuriates mom if they call our house. Not sure why when we have done 95% of all the appointments for the past two years anyhow. And we always share the info regardless of who is taking them.

It just goes to show sometimes it is not about what it is about. And all the cloudy air I mention above does nothing to help an already difficult situation.

We also pay all the section 7 for medical as we have never been able to use mom's insurance, she just won't cooperate. Now we have a court order that says each family will pay for their own expenses (includes medical). It is not ideal but again, mom didn't want to play nice and share the info so it was more important for her to retain her benefits for her than to be able to use ours (which means she took a financial loss on consent - makes sense huh? lol).

[arabian]

Serene - you have 5 kids in your household? The biomother has 2 - part time. She probably just wants to be the first point of contact whenever possible concerning her kids. You have a difficult situation. Maybe the bio mom would like to attend some of the appointments with the bio dad? Alone. Perhaps she wants to have some time with her ex to discuss the kids with him? I think it's safe to say that you and the biomom don't like each other so maybe you can figure out a way to avoid each other?

Have you tried the OFW? I can't recall if you had or not.

[Serene]

She probably just wants to be the first point of contact whenever possible concerning her kids.

She may want to be the first point of contact. And that is fine. We didn't say she couldn't be. What is interesting is both mom and dad should be treated equitably as neither one of them have a right of entitlement over the other - they have equal and shared parenting of the children. We didn't change anything at the doctor's office - they just know dad and I are the one who takes them most times so thought to call us. It really is that simple.

You have a difficult situation. Maybe the bio mom would like to attend some of the appointments with the bio dad? Alone. Perhaps she wants to have some time with her ex to discuss the kids with him?

No this isn't the case. She doesn't speak to anyone. And there is no onus for both parents to attend appointments together. It is an option but neither are obligated.

I would ask that you attempt to see the logic when a parent (dad) says that if mom would like to or can take the kids to an appointment she can...that if he doesn't have to take the day off work then he won't. These kids have a lot of appointments, moreso than the average appointments.

I think it's safe to say that you and the biomom don't like each other so maybe you can figure out a way to avoid each other?

Aha! Dad has said to mom: Please let us know if you can take the children to their appointment on XX day. I don't see a need to be there for their dental cleaning if you can take them. If you can't then I will book time off and ensure they get there.

THAT is how we try to avoid being together AND to avoid taking off work unnecessarily AND avoid duplicating efforts.

The children's pscyhologist also does not feel it is in the children's best interests for the parties to be together in these circumstances. He has provided that it is too stressful on the children and that it also creates an unnatural environment for the kids. There are more reasons too.

I detest when someone says I don't like mom. I don't like it when dad or I take time off to do something she has said she can't do and then she attends anyways. I don't like it any more than if you or my mom or my best friend did that to me too. I really don't know mom to be honest. And yes, I don't like it when she curses me, my husband or our children on the phone or in an email but again, I wouldn't like it regardless of who she is.

Have you tried the OFW? I can't recall if you had or not.

Mom refuses to use it. Her lawyers even agreed that it was a very useful tool to use but she refused. Not much we can do. Dad wasn't going to trial over OFW.

[arabian]

Does your husband ever tried to discuss these and other issues one-on-one with his ex? Failing the two of them trying to sort things out I don't think there is much you can do. I personally would do everything I could do to avoid the woman and maybe you have to think more along the lines of self-preservation mode. I have to say I would be very resentful if my husband expected me to deal with his ex on any matter if the two of us didn't get along.

Hope you find some peace in all of this.