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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #61  
Old 09-28-2019, 09:03 AM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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I feel for you, I truly do but I can see your girls getting hurt my your actions... not physically but just more crap piled on them. When my grandma was placed in hospice one of my aunts physically assaulted another aunt, she grabbed her so hard she completely broke blood vessels in her arm, her whole arm was bruised from the shoulder to her wrist... her Drs wanted her to call the cops and report the assault... but given the circumstances she did not. Emotions run high, people say things at times of hurt, especially to people they donít care for. Step Moms response was not nice obviously but itís not like you two have a relationship with her. I donít see her being a threat to your children or you... itís all words. Youíve said your piece and now itís time just to let the courts work.

Calling the cops and CAS when you are basically in the midst of a custody battle doesnít help your case. How many people pull these stunts? Let the case work through the courts, have your lawyer contact her lawyer and request access as per the order you have. Donít contact step mom again. Youíre in court soon... file what you have to and let your lawyer work out the access with her lawyer... I canít imagine being away from my children but you need to give the courts a chance to work in your favour. Calling the cops and CAS is just going to make things worse for you and in turn... your girls.

Remember... a 14 year old can legally move out (had this happen to a friend 6 years ago... while different story though) and cops will not do anything... so you need to make sure youíre following the processes and listening to what your children want/need. No court order will force a 14 year old to stay where they donít want to. Donít do something thatís going to cause the relationship with your children to deteriorate further.


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  #62  
Old 09-28-2019, 12:26 PM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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I disagree with the above post. The OP WAS in a custody battle with her ex husband who is now deceased. He was the other party. Therefor she is no longer in a custody battle. That custody battle is over. The current situation is that her children are living with a non relative who is hostile and not promoting the childrenís relationship with their one and only remaining LEGALLY RECOGNIZED parent. The ex husband had custody, NOT the girlfriend.
The girlfriend was never a party to the proceedings and as such will need to ask both the judge and the OP for their permission to become a party.

My eldest sonís girlfriend had a baby when they were both 16 and after they broke up. The babyís mother initially lived with her stepmother then moved out. Then the child was taken away by CAS. The mother lost custody to the CAS at which point I stepped up and automatically became part of the proceedings ( iím the grandmother). The bio motherís stepmother wanted to fight me for custody as the child had lived with her a large portion of her life. The judge asked if I would give permission. I said no. She was not allowed to be part of the proceedings and I was awarded custody.

As for calling the police. This is not at all anything related to when one spouse calls the police on the other during a custody battle. First off there is no custody battle going on between the girlfriend and bio mom as a judge has not given permission yet for the girlfriend to participate in such a battle. Secondly, the OP has written proof of a death threat made to her by a woman the OP is not in an intimate relationship with and with whom the OPís biological children are currently residing. There is an extremely good chance the police will take this death threat seriously and charge the girlfriend. Adults can not go about making death threats. That is why we have laws. Even if you make a verbal death threat you can be charged, let alone putting it in writing which will basically guarantee a conviction!

The girlfriendís text reply is neither mature or reasonable but rather extremely concerning. A judge will not read that reply and be amused. The OP needs to protect her children and herself from this unhinged woman.

The girlfriend Ďs anger is not the normal anger of a person who is grieving. Anger means something is wrong. The girlfriendís anger is toxic and misdirected at you. She likely knows damn well that her partnerís death changes everything and therefor sees you as a threat. However she is not responding to you ( the perceived threat) in a mature, responsible or solution focused manner with the childrenís best interests in mind. This will not go over well with a judge. In fact if she keeps this up a judge may terminate her access to your daughters altogether.


To the OP, you did the right thing! Did you contact the CAS? That should be the first thing you do if you are concerned for your childrenís safetyí
If your kids are in danger they would be better off in the care of the CAS if they wonít place them in your care or if the kids refuse to go into your care.

If I were you I would go to court first thing Monday morning and make an emergency motion ( whether or not you have a lawyer). If you donít have a lawyer explain to the duty lawyer what has happened and your concerns for the safety of your children. Ask the judge for help. They will listen and make some sort of order to protect your children from this woman. The children may be removed from her care and placed into foster care if they refuse to live with you. Thatís okay. Their immediate safety is the priority. You and your children will likely needed counseling and reunification therapy. As for the 14 year old, she she can walk but the judge can also make a restraining order so that the girlfriend can not have any contact with her and she is not allowed to live with her.

Itís going to be a long road for you but look at what youíve already come through and survived. Your text to the girlfriend was mature, reasonable, compassionate and respectful. Keep that calm mindset. Donít give up on your kids. They will come around and they will know that you cared and YOU, their mother, fought for them.
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  #63  
Old 09-28-2019, 12:31 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
I disagree with the above post. The OP WAS in a custody battle with her ex husband who is now deceased. He was the other party. Therefor she is no longer in a custody battle. That custody battle is over. The current situation is that her children are living with a non relative who is hostile and not promoting the childrenís relationship with their one and only remaining LEGALLY RECOGNIZED parent. The ex husband had custody, NOT the girlfriend.

The girlfriend was never a party to the proceedings and as such will need to ask both the judge and the OP for their permission to become a party.



My eldest sonís girlfriend had a baby when they were both 16 and after they broke up. The babyís mother initially lived with her stepmother then moved out. Then the child was taken away by CAS. The mother lost custody to the CAS at which point I stepped up and automatically became part of the proceedings ( iím the grandmother). The bio motherís stepmother wanted to fight me for custody as the child had lived with her a large portion of her life. The judge asked if I would give permission. I said no. She was not allowed to be part of the proceedings and I was awarded custody.



As for calling the police. This is not at all anything related to when one spouse calls the police on the other during a custody battle. First off there is no custody battle going on between the girlfriend and bio mom as a judge has not given permission yet for the girlfriend to participate in such a battle. Secondly, the OP has written proof of a death threat made to her by a woman the OP is not in an intimate relationship with and with whom the OPís biological children are currently residing. There is an extremely good chance the police will take this death threat seriously and charge the girlfriend. Adults can not go about making death threats. That is why we have laws. Even if you make a verbal death threat you can be charged, let alone putting it in writing which will basically guarantee a conviction!



The girlfriendís text reply is neither mature or reasonable but rather extremely concerning. A judge will not read that reply and be amused. The OP needs to protect her children and herself from this unhinged woman.



The girlfriend Ďs anger is not the normal anger of a person who is grieving. Anger means something is wrong. The girlfriendís anger is toxic and misdirected at you. She likely knows damn well that her partnerís death changes everything and therefor sees you as a threat. However she is not responding to you ( the perceived threat) in a mature, responsible or solution focused manner with the childrenís best interests in mind. This will not go over well with a judge. In fact if she keeps this up a judge may terminate her access to your daughters altogether.





To the OP, you did the right thing! Did you contact the CAS? That should be the first thing you do if you are concerned for your childrenís safetyí

If your kids are in danger they would be better off in the care of the CAS if they wonít place them in your care or if the kids refuse to go into your care.



If I were you I would go to court first thing Monday morning and make an emergency motion ( whether or not you have a lawyer). If you donít have a lawyer explain to the duty lawyer what has happened and your concerns for the safety of your children. Ask the judge for help. They will listen and make some sort of order to protect your children from this woman. The children may be removed from her care and placed into foster care if they refuse to live with you. Thatís okay. Their immediate safety is the priority. You and your children will likely needed counseling and reunification therapy. As for the 14 year old, she she can walk but the judge can also make a restraining order so that the girlfriend can not have any contact with her and she is not allowed to live with her.



Itís going to be a long road for you but look at what youíve already come through and survived. Your text to the girlfriend was mature, reasonable, compassionate and respectful. Keep that calm mindset. Donít give up on your kids. They will come around and they will know that you cared and YOU, their mother, fought for them.


I think you missed the part where the OP stated this...

So here's an update if anyone wants one...
The trial coordinator emailed his lawyer and myself to say that the motion scheduled for October 4th cannot be heard at this time but His Honour would still like to address the issue.

His lawyer still expects me to serve my motion materials by Monday. She won't tell me who's name I put in the forms, so I guess I put his name?

The Judge wants to proceed with what is scheduled... to me that means they are well aware of what has happened... most likely the emergency motion wonít be allowed as this is already set to be heard and there is no emergency. If I was the OP Iíd be listening to what the court already told her to do, not wasting time trying for an emergency


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  #64  
Old 09-28-2019, 01:53 PM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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Itís still not a custody battle that is going on. That is over. If she has unsupervised access ordered by the court then she now has full custody of her children. If she has supervised access or there is an existing order that her access has been terminated then it would be more complicated. The court motion may be a formality just to clean things up and award her full custody now that the ex has died. In the meantime the girlfriend has sent a death threat via text message which in and of itself warrants notification to both the police and CAS and an emergency motion to have the children removed from the girlfriendís care to be placed either with the OP , somebody of the OPís choosing or foster care to protect them.

The girlfriendís text message containing death threats have escalated the situation to where an emergency motion has become warranted.

Last edited by Stillbreathing; 09-28-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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  #65  
Old 09-28-2019, 02:00 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Itís still not a custody battle that is going on. That is over. If she has unsupervised access ordered by the court then she now has full custody of her children. If she has supervised access or there is an existing order that her access has been terminated then it would be more complicated. The court motion may be a formality just to clean things up and award her full custody now that the ex has died. In the meantime the girlfriend has sent a death threat via text message which in and of itself warrants notification to both the police and CAS and an emergency motion to have the children removed from the girlfriendís care to be placed either with the OP , somebody of the OPís choosing or foster care to protect them.


She has a court hearing coming up... doing any of the above is just going to make her daughters hate her more than they do (according to her). They literally just lost their father, why turn their world upside down more? Think of how the actions are going to affect the children, not how her own feelings are hurt. The police wonít do anything. Theyíll go talk to her sure, tell her not to contact the OP but they arenít going to go arrest her for what she said. But what it is going to do is anger the children that their mother has called the cops or CAS and has caused them more heartache when they are grieving the loss of their father. Iím not sure why the mother would want to go against the advice she was given by the court house... the court date is next Friday. I certainly wouldnít be doing anything to add fuel to the fire. She could walk into that court room and the judge could hand her custody. Seeing as the judge wants to proceed with the scheduled hearing, they must know what has happened with the father. Keep the text message to present at the hearing as to why she should gain custody


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  #66  
Old 09-28-2019, 02:20 PM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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The police will likely charge the girlfriend with uttering a death threat as they have concrete evidence which means a sure conviction. The girlfriend is engaging in criminal al behaviour and is not rational. Grieving is not an excuse for criminal behaviour. The children are residing with a non rational adult who is unhinged and making death threats. The children are in imminent danger. The first priority is the childrenís safety. You can not fight for custody or access of your children if they are dead. End of story.
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  #67  
Old 09-28-2019, 02:25 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
The police will likely charge the girlfriend with uttering a death threat as they have concrete evidence which means a sure conviction. The girlfriend is engaging in criminal al behaviour and is not rational. Grieving is not an excuse for criminal behaviour. The children are residing with a non rational adult who is unhinged and making death threats. The children are in imminent danger. The first priority is the childrenís safety. End of story.


Highly, highly unlikely the step mother will be charged... happens way too often and charges are rarely laid. The children are not in danger. There has been no threat to the children. Mother can decide how she wants to proceed but given a court date is Friday, Iíd urge her to speak to her lawyer Monday before running to the cops and CAS and causing her girls more emotional turmoil. You have to remember, even parents who assault their partners get custody and access. There are even many on this forum over the years who have been subject to domestic violence and their exís were still awarded custody/access. Again, the mother has nothing showing the girls are in danger other than her own fear.


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  #68  
Old 09-28-2019, 02:26 PM
tilt tilt is offline
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Iíve seen cases where NOT notifying police and CAS of threats is then held against the person being threatened. The rationale ďI didnít want to escalate the situationĒ is countered by the judge as ďbecause you didnít report the threat/assault then you didnít really feel threatened so I am going to disregard the threat as wellĒ. Courts donít really deal well with threats and anything with shades of grey. They very much prefer black and white situations without nuance.

I agree that the CLRA is really clear, biological relationships almost always trump non-biological relationships. Even grandparents getting custody over a living parent is very much an uphill battle under exceptional circumstances. The Step mom, who is now in a precarious financial situation with the income-earner gone and the estate going to the children (and no mention of her having biological children that would be their step-siblings), is unlikely to win against a biological parent who has been in a long-term marriage and has biological siblings of the children in question. Iím struggling to find case law of a step parent getting custody over a biological parent who wants to keep custody.

This thread has been the most excitement this forum has seen for years.

Last edited by tilt; 09-28-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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  #69  
Old 09-28-2019, 04:50 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Judge wants to proceed with what is scheduled... to me that means they are well aware of what has happened... most likely the emergency motion wonít be allowed as this is already set to be heard and there is no emergency. If I was the OP Iíd be listening to what the court already told her to do, not wasting time trying for an emergency.

No judge wont hear the motion but they will decide on the issue of custody.

The original motion was for change in custody. Ex was filing to have access terminated. Ex is now deceased. The mother is no longer fighting for increased access to the children. The judge cannot decide on that because the opposing party is dead.

The text message is relevant. If anything I would file a response to the motion materials and respond with many of the details of the case in the materials but also add in that to the best of your knowledge the other party died onSeptember 18. Outline who advised you and that you have had zero contact with your children. List that you reached out to the spouse on x date and include her response.

I would still call CAS and ask them their advice. Even contact the police and ask their advice. Both organizations are skilled at dealing with these types of issues and it would be beneficial to have their advice. You donít have to file a report, you can simply ask for some guidance.
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Old 09-28-2019, 04:57 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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No judge wont hear the motion but they will decide on the issue of custody.

The original motion was for change in custody. Ex was filing to have access terminated. Ex is now deceased. The mother is no longer fighting for increased access to the children. The judge cannot decide on that because the opposing party is dead.

The text message is relevant. If anything I would file a response to the motion materials and respond with many of the details of the case in the materials but also add in that to the best of your knowledge the other party died onSeptember 18. Outline who advised you and that you have had zero contact with your children. List that you reached out to the spouse on x date and include her response.

I would still call CAS and ask them their advice. Even contact the police and ask their advice. Both organizations are skilled at dealing with these types of issues and it would be beneficial to have their advice. You donít have to file a report, you can simply ask for some guidance.


OP already stated the judge wanted to proceed with what was scheduled... that came right from the judge... so clearly the judge is prepared to speak to the parties. I canít be the only one who read that the OP spoke to the court house and the justice wanted to proceed


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