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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #41  
Old 09-25-2019, 01:27 AM
Mummaa222 Mummaa222 is offline
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
One thing Iím having a hard time with is that no professionals are believing you on the parental alienation... childrenís lawyer, psychologist, doctors, judges?

None of them are believing your story. I have no doubt you know your truth, but when many professionals are siding with your ex... one has to wonder whatís really going on.

Given the custodial parent is no longer available to be the custodial parent, I do think you will gain custody of your children, as long as you are capable of caring for the childrenís needs... but I also think it might be a long battle. Youíre dealing with a teenager that, by your own words, is alienated from you. A judge is going to take everything into consideration. A lawyer is absolutely required. You need someone to keep emotions out of it. Please donít try to do this alone . You are far too emotionally charged (rightfully so).

Have you spoken to the children since their fatherís passing? How often did you see the children before his passing? Whenís the last time you saw or spoke to your children?


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There has been only CAS who got involved because of many false accusations of my spouse and I abusing our now 4 year old daughter, accusations of both of us drinking during access visits, me driving after drinking, him drinking in the vehicle, both of us yelling at all 3 girls during access visits, if I told either daughter not to be rude it was turned into me calling them names...the list goes on. I've been walking on eggshells and jumping through hoops while he wasn't following his part of any orders. He got away with it somehow. I wish I could explain because it baffles me my entire family as to how nobody can see through either of them. But then again I married him and had children with him and didn't see any signs of what was going on since literally day one. It wasn't until after we separated that 6 different women contacted me to tell me he had been with them and the stories he told them, things like I had post partum depression and emptied the house while he was at work. I lived with him and fell for his bullshit! It's very traumatic when you realize you had been living with a stranger for 6 years!

She's a great manipulator too...they put on a good show together.

The OCL isn't involved any more...she did her assessment and closed the file.
CAS and the OCL looked for brainwashing...basically asked the girls if someone told them to say things. I gave the OCL info on PAS and asked her to take a closer look. She came back with "the children don't appear to be coached".

They've both been brought for counselling several times. The counselling is usually for a very short period or not at all because "they don't need it" is what my ex would say the counsellors said.

They brought my 10 year old in twice claiming she was suicidal because she asked what happens when you die one time and another time what's it like to be dead (it breaks my heart that she is more than likely wondering that same thing right now) The counsellor said she wasn't at risk and closed the file. I found out about this through a settlement brief months later. Nobody thought it important to let her mother know. There's just SO much it's sickening and it's exhausting.

I do believe that they want someone to do something and I hope they can see I'm trying.

I want a psychological assessment done but I can't afford to pay for it so I'm not sure about that either.

As for the judge seeing it...he hasn't seen any of my evidence yet. The lawyer I had in the beginning didn't submit anything I asked him to and really made it seem like I just wasn't being allowed access when I told him my fears. Half of the time he didn't even answer my emails with questions or info.

When I' said I feel invisible I meant it...kinda messes with your head a bit when nobody seems to hear anything you're saying.

The last time I physically saw my girls was August 26th at the exchange spot when the 14 year old refused to get out of the car and the 10 year old sat in the backseat with the window up looking upset. The step-mother told me that day that she wasn't going to sit in the parking lot all day and her exact words were "I'm not part of this deal" before she got in the car and left with them. The next day I was served with a notice of motion to terminate access completely.

I've noticed a pattern where if I say or do anything to upset her or make her uncomfortable she lashes out by having him contact his lawyer or calling cas. That's what scares me about her...I'm worried about what she'll do if she's faced with losing my girls...would she hurt them? Take.off with them? It terrifies me and I've expressed this to the OCL and CAS and again it's been brushed off.

If nobody around me was also seeing what I see I'd think I'm just crazy too but we all see it!
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  #42  
Old 09-25-2019, 02:28 AM
Mummaa222 Mummaa222 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
So sorry to hear you are going through this. Take a deep breath.

According to your posts your ex had custody and you were the non custodial access parent with unsupervised access. Plus you have custody of a child who lives with you. You have been fighting for your children for the past few years in family court because you love them and want them in your life.

Your ex has suddenly passed away.

Now your children are living with a female non biological relative who was your exís girlfriend. Your exís death changes everything. His girlfriend is likely grieving as well as your children. Have you tried reaching out to her and offering your condolences? Asking if there is anything you can do to help? Bringing a meal over? I know it might be hard with all youíve been through but sometimes itís easier to catch a fly with honey instead of vinegar. Taking the high road by being compassionate in the face of your own grief is a classy thing to do even if itís not received well...plus you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised. His girlfriend is likely reeling from his death as well as you.
This could be a golden opportunity for you to raise the bar and set a fantastic example to your kids.
She has not answered or returned any calls.

She seems to have a hate me for unknown reasons. I have good reason to hate her (she was the camp cook at one of his jobs) but decided a few years ago to forgive him and her for my own good.

She won't even make eye contact with me and any time I've had to text her while he was at work I've been overly polite and received either one word answers or none at all.

I do hate her now for what has been done to my children though. That will never be forgiven. However, I could and would get along with her for the sake of my daughters. I'd hide my feelings for her in front of them just as I have for the past 9 years. I'm accused of speaking badly of him and her to the children but have never.

I wish it were that easy.

The person my ex was with when he went into cardiac arrest is actually my son's father's wife. It was her who called me. Her and my son's father have invited me for christmas dinners, I've driven her to the hospital when she was in labor, etc. We have a great relationship. I'm actually very easy to get along with.

Just in case anyone is wondering about all these different kids and fathers: my son is turning 25 next month and his dad and I dated in high school and I had him at 19. We spllit because we were young but besides a few tiffs at first we've always got along. I had my 14 year old 10 years later and my 10 year old took over 2 years on fertility drugs. I had my 4 year old with my current partner and am done...she's been an adventure to raise lol. Super smart mixed with attitude!
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  #43  
Old 09-25-2019, 07:44 AM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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The other thing to consider is that if the girlfriend is in fact overly attached to your children and high conflict herself, it may actually be better for your kids for you to ask for the return of your children with no access to the girlfriend. This applies even if your children are attached to her. I know this because in addition to all my own children, I also was awarded custody of my granddaughter ( my son was 16 when his then 16 year old girlfriend had her). My granddaughter had been placed in foster care for 18 months and was attached to her foster parents and visa versa). CAS told me not to have anything to do with the foster family and make the break instant and clean with them as this was better for my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter
This was their standard policy with all adoptions as well. In my case I ignored their advice as I got along well with the foster family and we have become great friends over the years and to this day I still allow contact with my granddaughter which has been nothing but positive. Your case is different in that the woman looking after your children is non communicative with you and the both of you historically do not get along. There may be no working together. If she is going to respond by ignoring you or enter into high conflict court litigation over the children then it may very well be in your childrenís best interest for you not to allow her any co tact whatsoever once you have custody. You should speak to CAS about this. No matter what you do know that your children need you now more than ever.

I also have PTSD as do all of my children plus my granddaughter was traumatized. I do the best I can every day. My childrenís PTSD behaviours have been extremely challenging for me to deal with at times and sometimes even trigger my own PTSD. I am left to deal with the carnage my catastrophically brain damaged ex heeped upon my kids. My matter is still ongoing in the legal system with no end in sight. The kids and I were re-victimized by the court system and itís been over 8 years now.

So you see, others on this forum have also been traumatized by lengthy litigation. Remember that emotional pain is associated with time travel. You are either looking back at all the aweful things that have happened or forward and imagining the worst. Stay focused on the present.
Shut the door to the past and victim mentality, take a deep breath and step into the role of your childrenís champion.

If youíve reached out to the girlfriend and sheís ignoring you then thatís her bad. Move on to the next step. Focus on what you can control and let everything else go.
Have you made an emergency motion to the court to have your children placed in your care? Are you willing and able to take on that responsibility? The time to step up to the plate has arrived. You either do or you donít. As for the fourteen year old, others here are correct. She can vote with her feet regardless. My thirteen year old frequently ran away and tried to commit suicide and I have full custody. Things are settling now but I never gave up on my teen and did the best I could under the circumstances. But if you donít fight for her now it will negatively impact your relationship for ever.

The path you are on is still going to be bumpy, even if you had a great relationship with your two kids. Stop looking back at how aweful your ex and his girlfriend were and move forward. Rise up to the challenge. You are the only mother your children have. The girlfriend is not their mother, you are. You are also the only biological parent they have. Raise the bar and step up to the plate. Youíre up at bat.
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  #44  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:03 AM
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Janus Janus is offline
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Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
Just throwing this out there, if it was a male posting this, would you still have the same gut feeling?
This is a contest between a stepmother and a mother. I'm not sure which sexist angle you are trying to imply, because the party with a penis is dead.

Feel free though to look up my responses to fathers who come here complaining about PAS. Generally speaking I do not believe it. Normally, it is of not a big issue because people who claim to be victims of PAS usually will not get custody. This is less fun, because the martyr-parent is going to end up with custody.

The only moderately sexist thing I will admit to feeling in this case is that when a father loses custody, it doesn't mean much. Lots of good fathers lose custody. However, good mothers almost never lose custody. Mumma lost custody. I obviously cannot be sure, but forum posts are essentially ex parte proceedings and if I was a betting man I know where I'd be wagering my money.

I honestly do not see how I am the only one who sees her anger. Every second post has something about how her ex is terrible, the stepmother is terrible, what has been done to her is terrible. She is furious at the system and the girlfriend, and while she will play lip service to the best interests of her kids she wants that sole custody so bad you can taste it.

Anyhow, I don't want to point out what makes her look bad because it helps her clean up her image. I'm going to stop.
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  #45  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:21 AM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
This is a contest between a stepmother and a mother. I'm not sure which sexist angle you are trying to imply, because the party with a penis is dead.



Feel free though to look up my responses to fathers who come here complaining about PAS. Generally speaking I do not believe it. Normally, it is of not a big issue because people who claim to be victims of PAS usually will not get custody. This is less fun, because the martyr-parent is going to end up with custody.



The only moderately sexist thing I will admit to feeling in this case is that when a father loses custody, it doesn't mean much. Lots of good fathers lose custody. However, good mothers almost never lose custody. Mumma lost custody. I obviously cannot be sure, but forum posts are essentially ex parte proceedings and if I was a betting man I know where I'd be wagering my money.



I honestly do not see how I am the only one who sees her anger. Every second post has something about how her ex is terrible, the stepmother is terrible, what has been done to her is terrible. She is furious at the system and the girlfriend, and while she will play lip service to the best interests of her kids she wants that sole custody so bad you can taste it.



Anyhow, I don't want to point out what makes her look bad because it helps her clean up her image. I'm going to stop.


I agree with you actually... by the OPs own admission, the professionals donít see her claim for PAS... no one believes her children are being coached. Her reasons for losing custody years ago seem to be because of mental illness. Which sheís received help for. I do see her anger in her posts, which is why I strongly suggest she obtains a lawyer before trying anything in the courts. Emotions need to stay out of it. Being the only surviving parent, I do see custody being awarded to her on that basis, as long as sheís stable, which is why she needs a lawyer


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  #46  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:40 AM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
The only moderately sexist thing I will admit to feeling in this case is that when a father loses custody, it doesn't mean much. Lots of good fathers lose custody. However, good mothers almost never lose custody. Mumma lost custody. I obviously cannot be sure, but forum posts are essentially ex parte proceedings and if I was a betting man I know where I'd be wagering my money.
This was my first thought too...... and then I read this


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mummaa222 View Post
There has been only CAS who got involved because of many false accusations of my spouse and I abusing our now 4 year old daughter, accusations of both of us drinking during access visits, me driving after drinking, him drinking in the vehicle, both of us yelling at all 3 girls during access visits, if I told either daughter not to be rude it was turned into me calling them names...the list goes on.
Although these kind of accusations CAN get thrown around with absolutely no basis, there is usually some kind of merit behind them to some degree. All of these accusations link to issues with alcoholism/alcohol abuse. If I was a betting WOMAN, I would be wagering my money on the possibility that mom lost custody due to some problems with alcohol abuse/mental health issues at the time.
If every single person is saying no signs of PAS, my educated guess would be that the oldest daughter started wising up to the crap that goes along with watching mom and stepdad drinking on weekends and doesn't want to be involved in it anymore. The 10 year old is following her sister's lead. Step mom is possibly encouraging them to stand up for themselves and voice their opinions.

If mom no longer drinks and has a handle on her mental health issues, she will probably get custody. But it sounds like step mom may be ready to go to bat for these girls and will probably be digging up some skeletons along the way.
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  #47  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:06 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Originally Posted by Selfrepmom View Post
Although these kind of accusations CAN get thrown around with absolutely no basis, there is usually some kind of merit behind them to some degree. All of these accusations link to issues with alcoholism/alcohol abuse. If I was a betting WOMAN, I would be wagering my money on the possibility that mom lost custody due to some problems with alcohol abuse/mental health issues at the time. If every single person is saying no signs of PAS, my educated guess would be that the oldest daughter started wising up to the crap that goes along with watching mom and stepdad drinking on weekends and doesn't want to be involved in it anymore. The 10 year old is following her sister's lead. Step mom is possibly encouraging them to stand up for themselves and voice their opinions.

Hereís where I have a problem with this...how many people on this forum have had false accusations thrown at them? A lot. How many of those people have had that AND they were so desperate to get to see their kids that they agreed to anything their ex demanded? This isnít new nor is it unheard of. If dad took the kids and mom couldnít afford a lawyer she could very well have agreed to give up the kids for a period of time believing her ex would be reasonable. Kids between the ages of 8-14 are easily influenced.

My husband was accused of many things. His ex has claimed he was physically abusive and that he needed supervised access. It was never investigated or ordered. He had free and open access to his kids up until he stopped paying for shit. Suddenly the story changed and he was abusive. The kids didnít want to spend time with him because they were afraid of him. His youngest claimed he was emotionally abusive to her during their time together. I was with them, never was there a child more spoiled with love and affection that this one. When they started the court process the kids started saying they couldnít speak to him because he was continuing to abuse them. The judge told the ex that he wasnít giving these claims any weight in her arguments. Is my husband angry? You bet. Does he express this anger when he talks about it? Absolutely. Would people question the circumstances around his case? They have previously even on this forum.

The bottom line is we arenít experts in this case or know all the finite details. This case is a challenge and Mumma needs a lawyer. Whatever the white noise in the background is, the focus needs to be on having a lawyer to do the arguing.
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  #48  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:30 AM
Selfrepmom Selfrepmom is offline
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Hereís where I have a problem with this...how many people on this forum have had false accusations thrown at them? A lot. How many of those people have had that AND they were so desperate to get to see their kids that they agreed to anything their ex demanded? This isnít new nor is it unheard of.
Absolutely..... and occasionally there may be zero basis to the accusations. But usually, there is some merit behind them. Did ex & stepmom over exaggerate mom & bf's drinking to get what they wanted? Very possible. But it sounds like dad already had sole custody and THEN started calling CAS and reported the drinking problems. I mean he already had sole custody and primary caregiver.... why would he feel the need to call CAS at that point if he didn't have genuine concerns.


Maybe the accusations that the OP's ex made are completely 100% true and he and his gf were saviors to the girls and their home was a safe space for them. Maybe the ex showed up ONE TIME to pick up the girls and the OP and her bf were having beers in the backyard, then he blew it out of proportion. Maybe she's never touched alcohol in her life and goes to church every Sunday. None of us know.

But if there is something to those claims, hopefully for the girls' sake they are no longer an issue and step mom can see that. If alcohol is still an issue, then I'm willing to bet that stepmom is going to bat for these girls.

Either way, yes, OP needs to focus on getting a lawyer. This is very complex and multi layered
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  #49  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:21 PM
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The way I read her posts was that something happened years ago that had her ex getting sole custody and when mom went to increase parenting time, he said no prompting mom to file the motion. While the file was going through the courts the ex and step mom were amping it up by calling CAS, making accusations and influencing the kids. There have been many parents on here who have had this happen the moment they tried to spend time with their kids. Plus if moms lawyer was useless in the beginning it would compound the problem. Look at Mom2Two, her first lawyer fucked up royally at the first conference leading to an additional year and a half of proceedings. It happens.

I think many people tend to fall into judgement first rather than answering the original question or asking follow up questions. Weíve all jumped to OMG SHES A MONSTER!!
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:18 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
The way I read her posts was that something happened years ago that had her ex getting sole custody and when mom went to increase parenting time, he said no prompting mom to file the motion. While the file was going through the courts the ex and step mom were amping it up by calling CAS, making accusations and influencing the kids. There have been many parents on here who have had this happen the moment they tried to spend time with their kids. Plus if moms lawyer was useless in the beginning it would compound the problem. Look at Mom2Two, her first lawyer fucked up royally at the first conference leading to an additional year and a half of proceedings. It happens.

I think many people tend to fall into judgement first rather than answering the original question or asking follow up questions. Weíve all jumped to OMG SHES A MONSTER!!


I donít think sheís a monster at all... of mental health played a role in her losing custody I feel for her, itís not easy to over come mental health. I do doubt the PAS, as she has stated no professionals believe her... how many posters have come here saying their children were alienated? She needs to drop the PAS since she has nothing to back it up and focus on custody since their father is no longer around to care for the children. She cannot go at this alone. She needs an experienced lawyer


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