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  • First Post - Wished it was better circumstances

    Hi all,

    I have been searching this forum for some time now and have found it very helpful especially in educating myself for what needs to be finalized. I am the type if guy who keeps most everything locked inside as I don't want to be a burden of problems to my friends or family. I wish to share my situation and want to thank anyone who may respond ahead of time for taking time out of your day to pass on any advice or suggestions.

    I have been seperated from my common law spouse now for approximately 1 year and four months and my mind is now cleared and I know what I have to do. We have both made mistakes, but any advice you can share would be appreciated. We started dating in the year 2000 and offically moved in together in 2003. She had a child from her previous marriage and although she was not offically divorced until 2009, her & I lived together and built three homes together. She & I had three beautiful kids of our own and she is a wonderful mom. I guess just over time and the amount of work with the kids it started to wear on us. She stayed home with the kids, not worth paying for daycare, and opened her own home daycare when we built our second home. By the time our third home was built our relationship was in trouble and to simply hold a conversation usually ended up in a fight. She would wake up and say how unhappy she was and through arguing, why wouldn't I leave etc, so late in 2009, I did just that. She lives in the home we built which I still pay the mortgage for + utilities. We have debt together which still gets paid and between her daycare and increase with CTC she also helps pay a portion of the debt. I want to do what is best for the kids and for us to move on we need to have the home sold but to date nothing has been done and for myself to get my own place, with the kids, I need to have this done. My ex and I are joint on title of our home and most debt, although single debt we accumulated together. She has the truck & I the car and I have been staying with another women. I know what it can cost if things go the court/lawyer route and although I accept my responsibility to my kids etc, I feel now she is out for blood and I am looking for ways to protect myself in some sense, as I will need to create a new life for my 3 kids as well. To me it should be straight forward of sell the home, pay-off split debts, and I pay support for my angels, which I have no problem with. The problem is she is at the home, will not let me come there at all, only let's me see my kids when she see's fit, only picks up the phone once in awhile when I call and has all these people encouraging her for her entitlement. She e-mails me saying let's try mediation and then e-mails me saying that she heard something from someone (????) and that it will not work (???). She carrys on like she is in full control, maybe she is, but I am also worried about starting legal proceedings because for the most part, without sounding like an a$$, what I have read usually doesn't always favor the father of the relationship.

    So given what I have wrote, what am I looking at here? She is also on her employeer's payroll and can gain employment again, making more $$ than before. What I am truly worried about is myself not having the means to have some sort of life with my kids without having to depend on someone else or living in a one bdrm apt. I want to fully cooperate and make things fair but incase she does not see it that way is there anything else I can do?

    Thanks again,

  • #2
    Correct me if I am wrong but as long as your name is on the deed, you have the right to go there, unless you have been told by the police/court to stay away? I would give her 24 hours notice of any visit but I would not allow her to continue this.

    You need to request regular access with your children. Start with every other weekend and one over night visit during the week. If you are not setup for visitation at your new place, maybe make arrangements to spend time with them at your parents home.

    You need to workout what your guideline child support payments would be. Pay that amount and make your ex responsible for her own bills. Since you are no longer living in the home, you need to inform the utility company etc of the change.

    Mortgage, you will need legal advice on how to handle this. If she is unwilling to sell the house, you may need to take this to court.

    Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      Simple point first - she is in full control because you've allowed her to be. Unless there is a restraining order or a court order for exclusive possession of the home, you are entitled to live there. You made the single greatest mistake any parent could make by leaving the house without a court order or agreement providing for parenting time with your children.

      With no agreement or court order in place, you both would have defacto custody. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from picking up your children and taking them for an activity by yourself. Unfortunately, you've screwed yourself a bit by leaving the house where the children generally reside, and effectively made yourself a part-time parent. You can move back in (and I generally recommend you do) unless there is an order preventing it. Yes, it could cause WWXXIV, but that is why you protect yourself by always wearing and having on a digital voice recorder and limit all conversations to matters relating to the children, but I digress and understand that you moving back in is unlikely.

      I would email her and state that you are looking for regular parenting time with the children and that every other weekend and 1 night a week is standard. Personally, if your schedule permits it, and if you hadn't left the house, you should be requesting 50/50 shared parenting. But again, you've put yourself at a disadvantage by leaving the house and in doing so your actions have deemed her the primary parent.

      But send a formal request stating you are looking for regular parenting time with the children. Should she refuse or offer something that is less than the minimum standards, file a motion in court for access.

      You can try mediation, the Family Law Information Centres located throughout Ontario do offer subsidized mediation, which you can take advantage of. But you need to start pushing for time with your kids, separating assets and moving along. Because, right now, all you are doing is enabling her and making feel like she is in control.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hammerdad is right. You should consider moving back home. That is your best bet when it comes to this type of thing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
          Simple point first - she is in full control because you've allowed her to be. Unless there is a restraining order or a court order for exclusive possession of the home, you are entitled to live there. You made the single greatest mistake any parent could make by leaving the house without a court order or agreement providing for parenting time with your children.

          With no agreement or court order in place, you both would have defacto custody. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from picking up your children and taking them for an activity by yourself. Unfortunately, you've screwed yourself a bit by leaving the house where the children generally reside, and effectively made yourself a part-time parent. You can move back in (and I generally recommend you do) unless there is an order preventing it. Yes, it could cause WWXXIV, but that is why you protect yourself by always wearing and having on a digital voice recorder and limit all conversations to matters relating to the children, but I digress and understand that you moving back in is unlikely.

          I would email her and state that you are looking for regular parenting time with the children and that every other weekend and 1 night a week is standard. Personally, if your schedule permits it, and if you hadn't left the house, you should be requesting 50/50 shared parenting. But again, you've put yourself at a disadvantage by leaving the house and in doing so your actions have deemed her the primary parent.

          But send a formal request stating you are looking for regular parenting time with the children. Should she refuse or offer something that is less than the minimum standards, file a motion in court for access.

          You can try mediation, the Family Law Information Centres located throughout Ontario do offer subsidized mediation, which you can take advantage of. But you need to start pushing for time with your kids, separating assets and moving along. Because, right now, all you are doing is enabling her and making feel like she is in control.

          Thanks for the responses, so I did move back for two months back in September/October of last year but it just wasn't working out and I left again because a) it was non-stop fighting in front of my kids b) I did not want to get accused of a domestic violence charge. I knew she was speaking with some sort of legal representative and was trying for the exclusive possession document. When I heard this, I rushed home and she called her lawyer who told her to call the police and have me charged. Needless to say, I have nor would I ever lift a finger to her but the police told me it was better for me not to be there but they were not the court system. They told me if she ever called and said that I lifted even one finger, I would automatically be taken into custody. And I am sure this would look much worse on me in the long run. In all honesty, we cannot afford lawyers etc but her anger gets in the way of looking at things rationally. More like I am trying to pull a fast one on her. what sucks right now is that my vehicle cannot fit three car seats or drive well in the winter, I left her the 4x4 but now she says I should have sold it, which I tried with fail, and only started dropping off the kids to me on her time. I have seen them in the last 4 weeks,one semi-full weekend and two other Sat days. I call almost everyday and document when I call. Goes to vm most of the time and I am told that their life does not revolve around waiting for me to call. My kids are too young to use themselves. Anyway, I keep trying to say look I will pay you X, even lump sum, sell the home closing around when you and the kids found a suitable place and use the money to pay off half our debt + leave you what you need for rent etc. Then split the remaining debt so I can afford my own place and get a suitable vehicle for the kids to pick them up and spend time. I want to start pushing the envelope more but also worried she will force us into bankruptcy etc from not being rational about this and seeign what is best for the kids.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have a term I use when you have a hostile envirnoment, radio silence. The only time you would speak to her would be in instances relating to the kids and you would always speak to her in a calm manner.

            As for the false accusation and restraining order, that is what the digital voice recorder is for. You record for the ENTIRE TIME you are in the house (do not leave any holes). Should she try to call the cops, you tell them you have recorded the entire day and are willing to play it back for them. Should they refuse and just take you into custody, once you get to the station, you tell them about the recorder and/or recording. While the recordings may not be usable in court to prove parenting etc. they are 100% usable to prove a false complaint. Also, should you prove the complaint as fabricated, her credibility is now shot and looks like a hostile parent who is trying to eliminate the other parent from the children's lives.

            If you can move back in, get a room that is not her room and put your stuff there. Get a lock on the door. If she should become aggressive or confrontational, you advise her that you do not wish to discuss these matters at this point and that you are retiring to your room. Then, once the day is complete, you DL the recordings to your computer which I will assume is secured with password protection etc.

            Yes, if you don't protect yourself the cops are helpless against the false DV claim. But you must be prepared, and be prepared from the earliest possible moment.

            Should you reserve yourself to living outside the house, you need to start taking back some control and advising her that you are intending on exercising parenting time with the children on X, Y and Z dates. Politely state that you will be at the house to pick up the children (lets say Friday at 6pm) for the weekend. Should she deny access, journal it. Email her requesting time with the kids and save her responses. If she continues to deny you any parenting time, you take your journal and the emails where you've requested parenting time, and file a motion in court for scheduled parenting time.

            Also, if you end up in court do not fall for the "liberal parenting time upon reasonable notice" BS. That nice and unclear statement leaves you again at the mercy of the CP (custodial parent). It isn't clear what "liberal" is and what is "reasonable notice" to you will most likely not be to her. You want clear and concise times:

            Every Wednesday night from X to Y.
            Every other weekend from Friday at like 5pm to Sunday at 5pm.
            Every other March Break
            Every other long weekend (have them defined as been 5pm the day the children are let out from school to 5pm the day before the children's return to school)
            Have Christmas break defined, who gets Christmas morning on odd years vs even years.
            Get 2-3 weeks in the summer, with notice having to be provided by May 1 each year.

            But be clear and ask for want you want, because the court isn't there to provide remedies for issues that you don't bring before them.

            Comment


            • #7
              In addition to HD comments, you need to make your own arrangement for transportation, whether it's to have your parents meet you for pick-up or take a taxi. As long as you are relying on her to transport the kids, you will not get the access time you NEED to have with your kids.

              You seriously need to think about moving back in with the above recommended terms. I would also suggest picking up a babysitter camera or web cam. You can normally program the software to record any movement in the room.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hammerdad & Pharah thank you for your advice and responses with this. I have been searching for months on the internet but you really do not get this sort of concrete advice from a google search. There are forums on here, with similar situations but some of the answers are unclear so maybe you can provide your input as well.

                1) Does the length of my common law marriage include the years we were dating but not living together? We dated from 2000-2009 but moved in together in late 2003.

                2) Does her not being legally divorced change or impact my situation differently? I will still pay my required CS but wondering if this changes any potential SS/Pension matters etc.

                As much as I recognize going back to the home and again living in the den I do not think that is the best move for me. I know I am on title, as is she, and I did put down 95% of the large down payment but any and all equity will be going to our debt. For us both to move on this is what needs to happen from an affordibility standpoint but she has her home business out of the home and if this goes to court I am assuming I would need to show cooperation and best for the kids interest, versus I can do this because in the end I am not 100% sure she would agree to shared custody and what not. I am looking to have the immediate matters resolved and then when I am back on my feet explore the shared custody route. Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way but I also feel like I need to tiptoe to avoid her from taking this matter to the court system. Honestly, and please let me know if I am wrong here, I would walk into mediation and say keep all items in the home, say a few things of mine, we sell the house and split the equity to go to all debt, vehicles stay the same, split remaining debt, and ask for joint custody with her being the CP right now and pay her support. I would not agree to any SS or pension because she can come back to her previous job, as I made it so she remained on the payroll and can go back to work making more $$ than before. Where she is making things difficult is saying that if a for sale goes up she may loose people from her daycare and her current (written off) $10k a year income. I told her that she could look first and see if anything comes available in the area and then put up the sign, or if needed start a new ad as they is plenty of people needing daycare if she doesn't go back to work right away. I can show though that of right now today she has that option but whether she wants too or not, I need to get my stuff in order. This way I can get my parenting time and then hopefully go back and revisit the shared custody arrangement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MAC-JMJ View Post
                  1) Does the length of my common law marriage include the years we were dating but not living together? We dated from 2000-2009 but moved in together in late 2003.
                  Nope, just cohabitting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1. Freeze ALL jointly held accounts.

                    2. If you still have "jointly held" car insurance, get that separated ASAP. Cancel it and go with a new provider if you must, but get your name the hell off it by any means necessary.

                    3. Any utilities in YOUR name for the home needs to be stopped. Be reasonable, ie. give her 30 days notice that you are removing the utilities from your name so she can get them into her own.

                    Kill luxury items like cable, internet, long distance, etc. immediately. The phone company can make it so you cannot make long distance calls at all if necessary. Items such as power, oil, and basic phone you will need to give her time to make arrangements for.

                    Thing is to force her hand without giving her ammunition. Don't be the guy who cut off the power to the home in the middle of winter without warning. THAT will screw you. Giving her sufficient notice to make arrangements and redirecting funds to her in the form of child support is both reasonable and proper.

                    4. Start paying her OFFSET table amounts of CS IMMEDIATELY. (bank the difference between OFFSET and full table into a separate account, just in case you get nailed for arrears)

                    5. Indicate to her that you'll contribute 50% of the mortgage payment, but she'll have to contribute the other 50% until the home is sold. If she refuses, then pay her OFFSET support - 50% of the mortgage payment until you get a court order. (and use the MEMO field to indicate such (ie. XXX CS for DATE less XXX mortgage for date).

                    Give her a month or two to NOT pay her share so you can show reasonable justification for doing it that way. Save ALL payment receipts.

                    6. Work out transportation for the kids. Hell trade in your car and buy/finance a van if you need to. That or look into available transport companies in the area that you can pay to do the exchanges for you.

                    7. Moving out was a DUMB move, you've immediately put yourself at a huge disadvantage.

                    8. You are likely going to need to go to court to force the sale of the home. Doesn't sound like she's going to leave willingly. Start getting into that mindset.

                    9. If she isn't making the equivalent of full time hours @ min wage, then you need to push for her to be imputed that for her income. If she can still return to her former employer, then push to have her income imputed at what she is capable of earning with them.

                    10. If your schedule permits, you need to make arrangements for having the kids 50%. If you are ok with receiving the EOW screwjob, then make arrangements for that. (and change the OFFSET table amounts referenced above to FULL table amounts accordingly).

                    The trick with all this is to force her into a corner. You've been playing the nice guy up until now, and the time for that is over. You want to move on, then you need to motivate her to work with you. If she refuses, push for a court motion to force the sale of the home. If she is unable or unwilling to buy you out of the home, then it must be sold.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NBDad, thank you for your input here, I have responded under your bullets.


                      . Freeze ALL jointly held accounts. - Done

                      2. If you still have "jointly held" car insurance, get that separated ASAP. Cancel it and go with a new provider if you must, but get your name the hell off it by any means necessary. - Done

                      3. Any utilities in YOUR name for the home needs to be stopped. Be reasonable, ie. give her 30 days notice that you are removing the utilities from your name so she can get them into her own. - I have thought about this but I am sure she will need to pay the big deposits (first time account etc) but will call and look into this, thank you

                      Kill luxury items like cable, internet, long distance, etc. immediately. The phone company can make it so you cannot make long distance calls at all if necessary. Items such as power, oil, and basic phone you will need to give her time to make arrangements for. - She said something to me before about me having to keep her standard of living the same.

                      Thing is to force her hand without giving her ammunition. Don't be the guy who cut off the power to the home in the middle of winter without warning. THAT will screw you. Giving her sufficient notice to make arrangements and redirecting funds to her in the form of child support is both reasonable and proper. - Would never do that to my kids

                      4. Start paying her OFFSET table amounts of CS IMMEDIATELY. (bank the difference between OFFSET and full table into a separate account, just in case you get nailed for arrears) - So here is where I cannot, the mortgage payment is approx $1k (with taxes) biweekly which I pay and can show coming right from my pay + utilities and other bills, I have no real $$ to pay anything else. I pay approximately $3k per month in bills for the home and debt payments. She pays approx $750 of joint debt + groceries for the kids. Please tell me that even as I do all this she can still ask for arrears?? Doesn't it start once to makes a claim? I am all for paying what I owe but am I expected to leave for free and have absolutely zero? Could a court do this?

                      5. Indicate to her that you'll contribute 50% of the mortgage payment, but she'll have to contribute the other 50% until the home is sold. If she refuses, then pay her OFFSET support - 50% of the mortgage payment until you get a court order. (and use the MEMO field to indicate such (ie. XXX CS for DATE less XXX mortgage for date). - My mindset is I have not stopped my financial obligations, as I know I am still responsible, but anyone reasonable would see this. 50% of payment + full support puts me worse off then I am now from a financial aspect.

                      Give her a month or two to NOT pay her share so you can show reasonable justification for doing it that way. Save ALL payment receipts.

                      6. Work out transportation for the kids. Hell trade in your car and buy/finance a van if you need to. That or look into available transport companies in the area that you can pay to do the exchanges for you.
                      - As luck would have it I need a specific buyer for my car, dealer won't take, Spring/summer car which used to work cause we had the family vehicle. Once spring hits it is on the market.

                      7. Moving out was a DUMB move, you've immediately put yourself at a huge disadvantage. - I've been told this, in all honesty at first I left to give a break, clear the air but things got much worse and after a 2 month stint back, didn't work. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time. No arguing in front of the kids, with her etc.

                      8. You are likely going to need to go to court to force the sale of the home. Doesn't sound like she's going to leave willingly. Start getting into that mindset. -

                      9. If she isn't making the equivalent of full time hours @ min wage, then you need to push for her to be imputed that for her income. If she can still return to her former employer, then push to have her income imputed at what she is capable of earning with them. - She is f/t now prob $40k + bonus /pension/benefits. I pay for her benefits every two weeks, for the past 4 years.

                      10. If your schedule permits, you need to make arrangements for having the kids 50%. If you are ok with receiving the EOW screwjob, then make arrangements for that. (and change the OFFSET table amounts referenced above to FULL table amounts accordingly). - Are you talking about shared custody here?

                      The trick with all this is to force her into a corner. You've been playing the nice guy up until now, and the time for that is over. You want to move on, then you need to motivate her to work with you. If she refuses, push for a court motion to force the sale of the home. If she is unable or unwilling to buy you out of the home, then it must be sold. - It's sad that I have to think like this now but what I worry about is saying the word court and then me getting the royal 'screwed treatment'. Single mom, 4 kids (3 are mine) daycare job with write-offs $10k per year. Painting the picture that I left when she told em to leave and I thought, for the kids sake, it was the right thing and better than mom & dad fighting. So if I say this motion thing, does this mean we no longer can do mediation or settle out of court?

                      Thanks again for your time and response.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        have thought about this but I am sure she will need to pay the big deposits (first time account etc) but will call and look into this, thank you
                        That's why you give her 30 days notice.

                        She said something to me before about me having to keep her standard of living the same.
                        Don't listen to anything your ex says. She's stalling for time my friend. The longer you allow her to string you along, the better chance she has of getting a "temporary" order forcing you to continue those payments. Kill the luxuries ASAP. Keep the basic necessities so she can't make that claim.

                        So here is where I cannot, the mortgage payment is approx $1k (with taxes) biweekly which I pay and can show coming right from my pay + utilities and other bills, I have no real $$ to pay anything else. I pay approximately $3k per month in bills for the home and debt payments. She pays approx $750 of joint debt + groceries for the kids. Please tell me that even as I do all this she can still ask for arrears??
                        She can ASK for anything she likes. Might get it, may not. Depends if the judge has a bug up their ass that day or not. If you aren't paying child support the judge won't give a tiny rat's ass about the other stuff you are paying for. CS first, everything else second.

                        How much would you be paying per month in CS using the tables?

                        I'm going to be very blunt here, so I apologize in advance, but here is what personal experience has taught:

                        If she pushes the issue through the courts, YOU WILL BE ORDERED TO PAY CHILD SUPPOPRT, regardless of ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. You NEED to be sending her "child support". PERIOD.

                        If you are able and willing to take the kids 50% of the time, then you should be doing that. It'll drop you to OFFSET amounts of CS and allow you to claim the CCTB/UCCB 6 months a year. (you'll probably get jack all, but every little bit helps)

                        You need to work things out in such a way that you are paying her support. Your in a bit of a rough bind, as she's not willing to discuss the sale of the home, and you can't just stop paying the mortgage without risking going into default. That being said, if she pushes things and you get ordered to pay support + continue servicing the bills, you're screwed anyway.

                        Child support is supposed to go towards helping her support the children while with her...including RENT/MORTGAGE/FOOD/ETC.

                        Since she is currently living in the home, it's supposed to be her responsibility to continue to pay for it.

                        Indicate to her (in writing) that you are paying her X amount of child support each month, and charging her X amount of "occupational rent" while she continues to reside in the marital home. Make X = the mortgage payment.

                        However you do it, you NEED to get support worked in there somehow.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                          That's why you give her 30 days notice. - Sounds Good



                          Don't listen to anything your ex says. She's stalling for time my friend. The longer you allow her to string you along, the better chance she has of getting a "temporary" order forcing you to continue those payments. Kill the luxuries ASAP. Keep the basic necessities so she can't make that claim. - I left the first time in October 2009 and came back Sept 2010. Left again in October 2010 and have not been back, has too much time passed already?



                          She can ASK for anything she likes. Might get it, may not. Depends if the judge has a bug up their ass that day or not. If you aren't paying child support the judge won't give a tiny rat's ass about the other stuff you are paying for. CS first, everything else second.

                          How much would you be paying per month in CS using the tables?

                          - $16k/year, what I am looking to do is once the home is gone I will take out a loan to pay lump sum and then save up that same year so that I am not having deductions off each pay cheque.

                          I'm going to be very blunt here, so I apologize in advance, but here is what personal experience has taught: - I appreciate it!

                          If she pushes the issue through the courts, YOU WILL BE ORDERED TO PAY CHILD SUPPOPRT, regardless of ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES. You NEED to be sending her "child support". PERIOD.

                          - So even though I am paying for the home that they all live in + most bills etc and we are joint they would expect me to pay her first and risk forclosure, bad payment history etc? Not sell and then pay, am I not technically paying support right now by doing this because she cannot afford the payments?

                          If you are able and willing to take the kids 50% of the time, then you should be doing that. It'll drop you to OFFSET amounts of CS and allow you to claim the CCTB/UCCB 6 months a year. (you'll probably get jack all, but every little bit helps)

                          You need to work things out in such a way that you are paying her support. Your in a bit of a rough bind, as she's not willing to discuss the sale of the home, and you can't just stop paying the mortgage without risking going into default. That being said, if she pushes things and you get ordered to pay support + continue servicing the bills, you're screwed anyway.

                          Child support is supposed to go towards helping her support the children while with her...including RENT/MORTGAGE/FOOD/ETC.

                          Since she is currently living in the home, it's supposed to be her responsibility to continue to pay for it.

                          Indicate to her (in writing) that you are paying her X amount of child support each month, and charging her X amount of "occupational rent" while she continues to reside in the marital home. Make X = the mortgage payment.

                          However you do it, you NEED to get support worked in there somehow.
                          - I have told her that where I am living now is not working out and I need to be out by a certain time, I am hoping that this will push her to move. I know she cannot afford legal/court system so I almost have to play 'poker' hands with her and call bluffs in a way. Any other advice on how to further push the issue is welcomed, and thanks again for all your input.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know she cannot afford legal/court system
                            Hopefully your ex is a complete idiot...otherwise...here's how she screws you.

                            Step 1: Quit her job (he's not paying child support *sob sob*)

                            Step 2: Go on welfare (I need to protect the kids SOMEHOW *sob sob*)

                            Step 3: Collect free legal aid lawyer

                            Step 4: File for exclusive possession of Mat home + temp orders for you to continue servicing ALL the bills as per the status quo + temp orders for full table amounts of child support.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1. You don't need a lawyer to go to family court. Both myself and my ex appeared without counsel.
                              2. Use this tool to calculate how much you should be paying her.
                              Public Legal Education and Information Organizations Across Canada
                              3. You will end up defaulting on the mortgage anyway if you can't afford this.

                              STOP PAYING HER WAY AND SHE WILL HAVE TO SELL THE HOUSE.

                              Comment

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