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  • #16
    Originally posted by Resident sceptic View Post
    Who is OP?

    Original Poster

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    • #17
      Problematic doesn’t begin to describe this case and meddling is not a word I would use to describe anyone who wants to help the children. Yes, we support our son. Yes, we are involved grandparents and yes, we pay the legal fees. Yes, the money spent would be much better in a RESP but at this rate neither child will be finishing school and if they do and decide to go to college or Uni, we’ll find a way.

      Yes, CAS was involved. One of the problems with CAS, is they must report any disclosure made by the child to the alleged offender; the mother in this case. As one example, on one occasion, the older child disclosed to his tutor and myself, being grabbed by the mouth from behind, dragged upstairs and thrown to the floor; that his mouth was sore and his back hurt. There was an abrasion and bruising on the low back. Taken to Out Patients, the child told the triage nurse the same story, then the doctor the same story but knowing CAS was going to disclose to his to his mother, told CAS he jumped out of a second story window. There were many instances where the older child disclosed abuse only to tell CAS a different story and be punished by the mother after disclosing to CAS.
      There was an occasion where the older child was taken to police with bluing around his eye and scratches on his neck, where he said his mother had hit him in the eye then took a swipe at him that just grazed his neck, hence the scratches on his neck. The police officer was alarmed and called CAS but CAS was of the opinion the child lies and will do anything to get back to his dad’s.

      There were many, many instances of disclosure where the child was punished for disclosure after speaking to CAS. I’m not sure how to fix this but one thought I had was; once there are allegations of abuse, a child should have the privacy of being able to disclose safely to a psychologist without what is disclosed being repeated to the suspected abuser. Another issue is the requirement for both parents to sign off on the child seeing a psychologist for a psychologist would have uncovered the abuse long ago. To this day she has been able to keep the children away from psychological professionals, or social workers except the ones she has taken the older child to without disclosing to the father at all, or after the fact and where she controls the agenda.

      Yes, OCL was involved and was influential. The OCL assessed both homes as being equally safe. The mother was caught lying bald faced to the OCL on at least two occasions.
      The older child all of a sudden was terrified of driving. He said his mother would drink or consume drugs before she drove and that she drifted into oncoming traffic; that she drove too fast; hit the shoulder often. As a result of our complaints the OCL asked point blank about her driving habits to which she said she ALWAYS drives at or under the speed limit, always is very careful and mindful; yet there were two recent speeding tickets in the OCL Collateral Notes.

      We complained about the mother’s meth and alcohol use for years. She had posted about her alcoholism online but at the time we did not know it. She denied our repeated allegations that she used meth and alcohol all the time. The children complained about her driving, about being afraid when she passed out that she was dead; according to the children she’d fall all over the place and break things, as examples. She’d fly into rages; we have examples on video from our security camera outside. She told the OCL she always drank responsibly and maintained for three years she didn’t use drugs AT ALL until we had a disinterested witness tell us she was snorting speed off his coffee table, at which point she changed her story to ‘she only uses MDA and only on special occasions four times a year.’ The OCL clinician tut tutted a bit and said the mother shouldn’t use drugs then proceeded to say she felt the children should be put into the mother’s care to get them away from the conflict. The mother was the source of any conflict! There is alienation and abuse to this day. Dad gets three weekends a month and half the holidays and summer. Just this past weekend the children disclosed that the mother’s new boyfriend had made dinner which the older child really enjoyed but the younger child did not want to eat; so the mother grabbed him by the hair and force fed him. He is seven and failing grade 2.

      The dad fired the lawyer, because he knew to “settle” would mean the ruination and continued abuse of the children; that she would continue to manipulate and abuse any court order. You can not “settle” or reason with a psychopath or narcissist or whatever her problem is.

      Comment


      • #18
        You don’t need a statistician. As janus said, make a calendar and colour code it. A statistician is not existent for this and its a waste of time money and energy.

        Second, where are you at in the court process. Has there been an order? Is custody on an interim basis? If your son is still in the process then the school info MAY be relevant but minus the CAS and OCL report it may hold no weight.

        Im not trying to be combative or difficult but simply pointing out some unfortunate facts. Your grandchild lied to cAS. Regardless of their reasons why, their credibility is shot. Each parent should have the opportunity to defend themself against an accusation. How would you feel about their procedures if you son was falsely accused of abuse which was orchestrated by his ex?

        You should be speaking to a lawyer about custody options. This is too complicated for self rep and you will never get anywhere. That lawyer should be someone with experience with CAS, abuse and complicated custody arrangements.

        As for CAS and their procedures, has your son spoken with a supervisor? Has he called the police and reported the abuse when it happens? Has he also advised the child to be honest with CAS?

        Finally, out of curiosity, what was the offer the lawyer suggested and what was the reasoning behind it?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
          You don’t need a statistician. As janus said, make a calendar and colour code it. A statistician is not existent for this and its a waste of time money and energy.

          Second, where are you at in the court process. Has there been an order? Is custody on an interim basis? If your son is still in the process then the school info MAY be relevant but minus the CAS and OCL report it may hold no weight.

          Im not trying to be combative or difficult but simply pointing out some unfortunate facts. Your grandchild lied to cAS. Regardless of their reasons why, their credibility is shot. Each parent should have the opportunity to defend themself against an accusation. How would you feel about their procedures if you son was falsely accused of abuse which was orchestrated by his ex?

          You should be speaking to a lawyer about custody options. This is too complicated for self rep and you will never get anywhere. That lawyer should be someone with experience with CAS, abuse and complicated custody arrangements.

          As for CAS and their procedures, has your son spoken with a supervisor? Has he called the police and reported the abuse when it happens? Has he also advised the child to be honest with CAS?

          Finally, out of curiosity, what was the offer the lawyer suggested and what was the reasoning behind it?
          I have already made a calendar and it is colour-coded and cross-referenced to the school attendance record and you would think that that, sworn, would be enough but my concern is that not being a professional and having an interest myself, this information may not be looked upon as seriously as that compiled by a disinterested third party and in my opinion, for what it’s worth the whole issue of education and that of any potential “educational trauma” as I have heard it described, is very serious and has not been seriously addressed. When these children have attended class, it is often after having missed important steps or information that leaves them sitting there wondering what to do, over and over and over again. Mom doesn’t do homework or French reading with them either; so they still struggle with language. They come from an English-speaking home and attend a French only school. Mom speaks English to them unless it’s in front of authorities, teachers etc. and has given the older child days off school for lying to authorities

          At first the child told the truth to CAS and disclosed about his being punished when he disclosed to them but I’m not sure how you tell a seven or eight-year old how not to lie when they are consistently punished for telling the truth.

          I understand your statement about being able to defend one’s self against allegations of abuse but clearly this leaves the child defenceless; this is why I felt perhaps when there are allegations of abuse, having a psychologist handle those complaints might have some value.

          Yes, our son has spoken to a supervisor at CAS. Our son has a lawyer. His lawyer recommended we not call CAS to make any complaints and we certainly don’t want to, since it will result in the children being punished yet again.

          The offer refused is what it is now; three weekends a month, shared holidays etc. and was framed as “take the fun times” and “take the weekends.” What the lawyer in question was fired for, was insisting our son take the offer or he; the lawyer; would quit the case. What our son wanted was to ensure the children’s education, a stable home and psychological counselling; so he offered the mother the same, three weekends a month, shared holidays etc., hoping to save their education and that a stable home and counselling would offer the children some protection from an otherwise negative environment on the weekends. By this time the children’s education was in tatters but we all felt that tutoring and counselling had some slim hope of bringing them back up to speed and change their souring attitudes toward school.

          Comment


          • #20
            You dont need an “expert” to do what you have done. It demonstrates the absences on which parent’s time. If anything you could get the teachers to testify or file affidavits.

            A psychologist *could* report the abuse based on what the child says but that would be to cas and if they don’t believe the child you are back at square one.

            You still haven’t answered whether or not the court process is ongoing or if they have an order. If they are headed to trial then the testimony from the support providers (teachers, doctors etc) would need to be included.

            Comment


            • #21
              Stand back and imagine you are a superior court judge.
              What part has each of these parents played in this conflict?
              This appears to be a case of immature parents on both sides with one getting bailed out.
              The court can and will only do so much. No order will force either parent to be responsible, honest, earnest and mature.
              The advice you have received is very solid.
              Is this a battle you really need to take on because it has and will continue to consume you.
              Truancy is only one aspect so the original question has been addressed.
              So to reiterate is there a court order in force and what are the terms?
              Overturning a court order is no mean feat.
              And I have to say my heart aches for these kids. And I know yours is shattered.
              Life is not fair and often there is not much to do other than acceptance and prayers, I am not one for prayers.
              Last edited by Abba435; 05-06-2020, 06:52 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                I truly appreciate the advice and feedback from several of you. Thank you. Trust me, there is seldom a day goes by I don’t question the wisdom of proceeding. There is a Motion before the court and we are asking for a new assessment with a well-respected private clinician and Questioning which we were denied last time by her counsel dragging her feet until the justice lost patience and ordered us to proceed. One good thing I believe, is the justice on this case is seized on the matter and we won’t see justice after justice after justice.
                If we do not get a favourable assessment, I’m afraid we will have to draw a line under it as painful and unnatural as that will be.

                Comment


                • #23
                  It is still not clear if there is a court order in force for custody and access
                  Is the motion to change that order?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Yes, it is

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Court order granted sole custody to mother and access as you describe.
                      If so she holds the cards on schooling, counselling, medical, religion etc.
                      Father likely has right to access information on these major decisions but has no authority.
                      Assume you are in for a 2 year court process with legal fees of say $50,000, time spent countless hours, stress and impact on the medical and mental health of you and your son and almost certainly the kids.
                      If you lose you will also pay costs of say $25,000 to the other side plus court fees. So let's say $85,000 invested.
                      If you win you will likely never recover fees or costs from the respondent even if awarded as she can't pay. Two years will have passed.
                      So, assume you are now planning to invest between $50,000 and $100,000 in these kids.
                      How much tutoring could you buy to encourage a love of learning?
                      How many books, games, computer learning programs?
                      How many sport fees like martial arts where discipline is the focus could you pay for?
                      How much could you contribute to RESPs for them with the hope they will turn around?
                      Court is not always the answer. It is an option. What is the better investment?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thank you.
                        Yes, we have done the math too and there is no question your numbers are reasonable. As I had said, if we do not get a solid assessment and/or expose the many, many, indeed comprehensive abuses, we would be forced to vacate the case.
                        Let me be clear though; us abandoning the case would not stop her; it would only encourage her to offend more. She takes pleasure in boasting aloud about small “victories” or literally screwing dad out of a single dollar. If we abandon the case, I predict, no, I guarantee, she will start withholding the children on dad’s weekends and we’re back to making motions etc. She has indicated her intention to do so. She already has all communication more or less locked down with dad’s side of the family when in her care but the children are allowed unlimited access to anyone from her side of the family and her friends. Alarmingly, the older child has unknown adult friends online with his PlayStation games but he is not allowed to communicate freely with his beloved cousin of a like age who he grew up with, or his friends from his old school and neighbourhood. It sounds easy to just stop but it will not be easy.

                        I’d appreciate feedback on the pitfalls or usefulness of Questioning and a new assessment though.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Look, this person has been living in city housing for $150 a month, her boyfriend has been living there since January, she had legal aid for four years, for all we know has been getting welfare; all the while running a cash business at a loss of course for four or five years, bought a new car and a summer cottage last year, owns half the matrimonial home; so the courts are not the only ones she’s playing. We saw her online on a site where people were exchanging information on how to get money from the government for childhood diabetes since it was apparently a no questions asked proposition; though I have no idea if that is true or if she has applied. Sounds impossible right? I am not exaggerating.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            She has sole custody so the only way to have an assessment is on consent or by order.
                            Questioning would only occur after an appearance in court.
                            How well have you documented everything? If you pay a lawyer to assemble all of this information you are getting a huge bill.
                            You cannot fight crazy. You cannot change her. Noone can.
                            My recommendation unless there is clearly something criminal here is to invest in high quality activity when they are with your son. Love them through this. Be amazing role models. Make it so fun they will beg to be with you. When they are 13 or older the tide will turn and they will vote with their feet.
                            Best wishes for these kids and your family.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              We already do that, as we have done as grandparents since they were born and dad does a good job too. It is SO HARD to get them to go back there every week. They hate going there.

                              We already have agreement on a new assessment though she wants the OCL to do it again which would probably mean the same clinician and we want a new set of eyes on it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Why was she awarded custody by a judge?

                                Why has she agreed to an "assessment" when she already won custody?

                                Will she agree to more residency time with your son?

                                Do the children want more time with your son?

                                Is he up to date with all obligations?

                                Does son have criminal record, substance abuse issues, assault or domestic violence, charges etc?

                                What was wrong with the incumbent clinician report?

                                Comment

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