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  • Is mediation worth it?

    Quick summmary of our situation. I am a divorced mom of 2 children. I am in the process of moving in with my boyfriend who is a father of 2 children also. All our kids get along amazingly well.

    Perfect scenario up to now... he talks to his ex about our plans. She flips, and since then has done everything in her power to keep the kids away from their dad. It has been almost 3 months now since it all started, and things seem to only get worst. Their agreement is for a 50/50 custody arrangement (week on week off), which they followed for over 5 years.

    Since the announcement of our move, he has since his children a few hours here and there after lenghty negociations with his ex. The kids are 11 and 13, the ex claims it is for them to decide and basically dismissed their separation agreement. She clearly influenced the children and has been surprisingly successful at it.

    My boyfriend has been calm with the situation in general, hoping it would help matters. He has offered the children many opportunities to spend time with him, (and us who they say they love spending time with), but the children become increasingly distant. I have seen them interact with their dad, I have seen them being overjoyed with the news of us all living together, I am appalled to see this happening...

    I never had any issues with my own divorce. I am a strong believer in amicable arrangements, especially when it involves children. My boyfriend is the same. But right now, I do not think this situation can continue. How can someone decide an agreement is no longer valid and prevent a very involved father from seeing his kids? There has to be something he can do... would mediation be worth trying in this situation?

    Help!

  • #2
    I would simply have your b/f state to his ex that, until the separation agreement has been amended by mutual agreement or court order, that it is his intention to abide by the provisions of same. As such, he will be at the prescribed location at the prescribed time for the parenting exchange. Should the children not be provided at such time, such failure it will be noted for future use and possible contempt. While he agree that the children shall have more say in his relationship, until the separation agreement has been amended, any changes regarding his parenting time shall be his, and his alone to determine.

    Have him further state that it is each parents responsibility to promote the childrens relationship with the other parent and that this is in the children's best interests. Failure to promote such relationship, or worse, to degrade such relationship is a form of abuse and will not be tolerated. State that he has always made efforts to ensure her relationship with the children is not tarnished and promotes it accordingly and wishes that she provide him with the same consideration. Should the children continue to show signs that they are being alienated, he will make a motion to the courts to seek counselling for the children, as that is also in their best interests.

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    • #3
      In my opinion meditation will be a waste. The mother is putting her insecurities and anger ahead of what is important to her children. Mediation will not help this> You need to take aggressive court action now, before the permanent damage is done. This is parental alienation 101. The mother has mental health issues that need to be addressed . A therapist for her is what is needed not a mediator. He has 5 years of status quo (week about) to lean on. The kids are at a critical age to allow this behavior from the mother to continue. This story is so common. Good luck to your family! P.S. is there an agreement stating 50/50 arrangement?

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      • #4
        Oh yah, mediation isn't what is needed here. It is about dad sticking up for what they have previously agreed to.

        As long as the separation agreement is in place, the kids don't get a say unless dad agrees. Mom doesn't get to dictate when dad gets to exercise his parenting time.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
          I would simply have your b/f state to his ex that, until the separation agreement has been amended by mutual agreement or court order, that it is his intention to abide by the provisions of same. As such, he will be at the prescribed location at the prescribed time for the parenting exchange. Should the children not be provided at such time, such failure it will be noted for future use and possible contempt. While he agree that the children shall have more say in his relationship, until the separation agreement has been amended, any changes regarding his parenting time shall be his, and his alone to determine.

          Have him further state that it is each parents responsibility to promote the childrens relationship with the other parent and that this is in the children's best interests. Failure to promote such relationship, or worse, to degrade such relationship is a form of abuse and will not be tolerated. State that he has always made efforts to ensure her relationship with the children is not tarnished and promotes it accordingly and wishes that she provide him with the same consideration. Should the children continue to show signs that they are being alienated, he will make a motion to the courts to seek counselling for the children, as that is also in their best interests.
          Thanks HammerDad, but I am afraid we are passed all of this.... The exchange doesnt' really happen in any location, kids just take a different bus on Friday after school. They haven't for almost 3 months now... My bf hasn't forced the issue other than trying to talk to his ex and his kids, by fear it would make things worse and be used against him later.

          Instead, he has had less and less access... almost none for a month now, even by phone or other means opf communication. The eldest is in therapy right now, he and his ex agreed (for once...!) it was necessary.

          I wholeheartly agree with your second paragraph... but his ex claims to be doing what is right for her kids and does not see the damage she is doing to them...Being a mom myself, I find it impossible to imagine any mom doing this... so if mediation will be a waste, what are the other options? File a motion? Doesn't he risk to lose the custody he already has?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Me_too View Post
            Thanks HammerDad, but I am afraid we are passed all of this.... The exchange doesnt' really happen in any location, kids just take a different bus on Friday after school. They haven't for almost 3 months now... My bf hasn't forced the issue other than trying to talk to his ex and his kids, by fear it would make things worse and be used against him later.
            So he advises his ex, in writing (email is best) that he will be attending her residence at the prescribed time for the exchange to happen. Should the children not be provided for his parenting time, he will take the appropriate actions to have his access enforced. edit - bring a witness and a digital voice recorder to help prevent false accusations. Also, he should not allow himself to get dragged into any arguments.

            He needs to stop pussy-footing around and start being a dad. The kids don't get to determine whether or not they are going to abide by a court order. Judges will determine that.

            Instead, he has had less and less access... almost none for a month now, even by phone or other means opf communication.
            He needs to start exercising his parenting time, instead of allowing others to determine whether or not he is going to exercise time that each parent previously agreed was in the children's best interests and/or the courts have determined.

            Agreements/court orders trump personal wishes.

            The eldest is in therapy right now, he and his ex agreed (for once...!) it was necessary.
            He needs to be involved with the therapist also.

            I wholeheartly agree with your second paragraph... but his ex claims to be doing what is right for her kids and does not see the damage she is doing to them...Being a mom myself, I find it impossible to imagine any mom doing this... so if mediation will be a waste, what are the other options? File a motion? Doesn't he risk to lose the custody he already has?
            She can believe what she wants. But she is not entitled to unilaterally alter a court order/agreement. Further, it is in the children's best interests to have an active relationship with each parent. And what a court has determined as the best interests of the kids trumps her beliefs every day.

            How does filing a motion cost him anything when he isn't being allowed any parenting time at this point anyway?

            At the age of 12 the court will start to take into consideration the childs wishes, but that will be weighed against the maturity of the kids, their reasoning and what benefits the relationship with the other parent provides (addicts are given less weight, good parents more). However, some people have this misconception that the kids can actually determine what they choose at a certain age. That isn't the case. If there is a court order/agreement, such agreement must be abided until it is changed. If mom really has an issue with the kids going to dads, or the kids are adament about not coming over, mom needs to file a motion changing the parenting time provisions of the agreement.

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            • #7
              So are we in for a court battle? Sorry for my ignorance... I have been lucky enough to stay away from all this custody battle. Or can this be resolved outside of the courtroom?

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              • #8
                Oh and one more question... assuming he filess a motion, the agreement is adjusted and he has parenting time access, how do we enforce it?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Me_too View Post
                  Oh and one more question... assuming he filess a motion, the agreement is adjusted and he has parenting time access, how do we enforce it?
                  You request an enforcement clause where the police can enforce the access provisions. Generally, this won't be ordered to start. It takes about 2-3 contempts to get this.

                  Also, right now he shouldn't be filing a motion to change the agreement. He has specified parenting time, what he needs to do is advise the ex, in writing (without malice/emotion/stupidity etc...write like he is writing to a judge), that he WILL be exercising his agreed parenting time and will be at the prescribed location to do so.

                  If/when the ex comes back and says "the kids have said they don't want to go", he replies with "the kids are not able to determine whether or not they are willing to abide by the agreement. Whether or not my parenting time with the kids will be exercised is my decision to make. We have agreed to the parenting time schedule as provided for in clause X of our agreement dated Y. Until such clause is amended by further agreement or court order, it will be in full force and affect. If the children wish not to attend my residence for my parenting time, please contact me with alternative dates for make up time, which I will take into consideration."

                  And then state again that it is in the kids best interests to have a relationship with both parents, and that was each of your intention when the agreement was signed.

                  The only motion you would be filing in the event of a denial of access is contempt. And for contempt, it is best to have 4-5 documented instances prior to filing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Me_too View Post
                    So are we in for a court battle? Sorry for my ignorance... I have been lucky enough to stay away from all this custody battle. Or can this be resolved outside of the courtroom?
                    This can be resolved outside of the courtroom by him training his ex to abide by the agreement by actively enforcing it.

                    Where she says the kids didn't want to come over. Simply reply with "it isn't there decision to make. I will be there at X time to pick them up". Come prepared with a witness and a digital voice recorder.

                    In order to train her, he will have to beat her over the head with the existing court order. He needs to stick up for himself and his relationship with his kids as she obviously won't help him (but she will hurt him).

                    He needs to be involved with the kids as much as he can. Start getting involved in their school (parent volunteer), coaching sports or other activities. Start going to their school and taking them out to lunch etc. These are things he can do outside of the agreement.

                    The only way to keep this out of court is start enforcing the current agreement. Otherwise, he will continue to be at the mercy of his ex and the kids. And the kids need a dad, not a doormat.

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                    • #11
                      No email...via letter best method.. found out the hard way at our trial...anyone can apparently temper and/or create emails.
                      Hammerdad is right, the court will start to take into consideration the childs wishes, but will NOT make a decision on the fact the other parent is simply stating the child no longer wants to visit. Your situation is very common. The Court will in most cases write an Order as per stated in the agreement, explain to both parties the rights as a parents which is to equally be involved in raising the child, decision making; might look at any therapists report if any; Order the OCL to be involved and/or an assessment if parties cannot come to an agreement. I certainly cannot be easy for any Judges to make a decision knowing it is in the child's best interest to have BOTH parents involved in their child's life (unless safety issues), not knowing the whole picture, who is fabricating stories, lying, manipulating etc..
                      I don't know how a "motion" can make things worse as the agreement is a binding contract according to the court which has to be complied with. If not, what is one suppose to do, let it go and not see their kids..NO.
                      If your b/f lets this go, not do anything about it, only shows the Court your b/f didn't have an interest in seeing the children.
                      Most of us don't want to "rock the boat" as they say, which is not always the best way to look at things, as the more time goes by, the more diffcult it is at that age (preteens) to reestablish a relationship with the children.
                      Me_too: can your b/f can pick up the chldren at the school and see what the children say, and see if they really do not want to visit with him and reason.

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                      • #12
                        In your boyfriend's situation I think mediation is a waste of time and money. His ex is out to hurt him and the children are her weapon.
                        HammerDad has excellent advice.

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                        • #13
                          Process has started.... waiting for the ex's response. Wish us luck, we will need it. I can't believe that any professional (lawyer, judge, therapist) would not see what is really happening here and know it is clearly not in the best interest of the children. But I am hardly surprised by anything any anymore...

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                          • #14
                            Indeed, the family court industry in Canada is severely dysfunctional. Top lawyers and Judges are only now going on record insisting the system cannot be repaired. There is a ground swell of Canadians demanding this system is dismantled and a new one formed. Good luck

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                            • #15
                              I have to agree with staysingle...but we have to put ourselves in any Judges shoes; it can't be easy to make a decision when you have so many people, including lawyers who are experts at lying. The lawyers goal is to win their clients case no matter what, at the client's expense...and then after going through it all, one can "appeal" the decision. We wonder why the court system is so backed up.
                              Dismantling the system and forming a new one like FRO did, spending 4 millions and look at the results...FRO being a governement agency can't even collect support if they do not have one's SIN, and can't obtain it from another agency such as Revenue Canada Agency due to Privacy and Confidentiality Act, instead more money is spend on FRO to try other ways of obtaining support. What is wrong with this picture?

                              Comment

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