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  • #46
    Just curious on how the wording is provided for in your agreement. Is it along the lines of either of these:

    Dad shall be entitled to exercise his access with his children at his residence begining after school on friday, with the children being returned on day before their return to school.

    or

    Dad shall be entitled to access with the children at his residence provided the flight does not leave at any time prior to the end of on friday, with the children being returned on day before their return to school.

    Not knowing exactly how the agreement/consent was EXACTLY worded, it is hard to know if he is actually not following the order.

    In my opinion, one of two things are happening:

    a) dad is trying to maximize the limited amount of time he is getting with his kids; or

    b) there are limited times for flights to and from each province and this is one of the times which would be reasonable.

    I say the above because, lets say OP gets her way and they get an after school flight. Now, I doubt it will be immediately after school, as you generally have to check in 2 hours prior to the flight. So that makes the flight at least 6pm (figuring school is done at 3pm, then a bit of a drive and check in at 4pm). Then, there is the length of the flight. I could be anywhere from 2-3 hours. So the children land around 8 or 9pm. Then there is getting through the airport at his place and the drive home to dads. So there is a good chance that by leaving after school he pretty much loses 1 night with kids as they won't be back to dads until possibly 10-11pm and will most likely be exhausted from a day at school and long trip.

    And the above is with the PERFECT timing and living reasonably close to the airport. If the flight should leave at lets say 9pm, the kids aren't getting to bed until possibly 2-3am on Saturday morning. So OP is fighting for an after school flight, notwithstanding that flight may cause the dad to lose time with his kids and cause her own kids to be up until the middle of the night...nice....

    So IMO, it is in your children's best interest to leave at a reasonable time of day. Whether or not the cost is cheaper is irrelevant. It will allow the children to arrive at his house at a reasonable time and allow dad to enjoy time with his children that he is entitled to receive. It is simply in the best interests of the kids.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Gary M View Post
      Sometimes it hurts worse than anything to take the high road. Well, worse than anything *except* seeing your kids suffer, that is....
      That is the truth!

      Coming from a relationship similar to the OPs I see this as a crossroad: either she realizes that the "extra time" is going to be good for the kids or she doesn't and continues to fight for control with her ex.

      I tell you, letting go of the conflict is painful at first, but in the end it feels so much better. Let the kids go and pat yourself on the back for being the bigger person. Maybe one day you might actually understand that is isn't a sacrifice you are making, but a change in perspective. So glad that I did that!

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      • #48
        HammerDad-The order is worded as such "Every Thanksgiving from Friday after school until Monday". I live 5 minutes from the airport, they have to be there 1 hour in advance. It is an 1 1/2 hour flight with travel back to his house of about 45 minutes. There are 4 direct flights throughout the day. 8am, 11am, 5pm, 9pm. They could be on the 5pm no problem as they are done school at 2:30. However the price difference between the mid-day flight and the 5pm is about $250 extra.

        He first emailed to inform me he was booking them on a flight at 6 am in the airport on the otherside of the province, a 2 hour drive for me meaning I would have to leave at 2:30 in the morning to make it there. I said no go, that is too much travel and I have to be at work in the morning. He said it was $1000 cheaper. Too bad. Thats why you don't pay me support.

        Asked him to please book as per the order and he books them at 11am. Asked him to revise and re-book to meet the order and am told "I will book their flights as I feel fit".

        Personally, I think it is about money due to his past behaviours. Not sure how to take the concept that he may want to spend extra time with the kids as when they are there he spends his time sitiing on his balcony smoking pot or sleeping until the afternoon and then spends the remainder of the time bitching to my kids (teens) what a c*nt I am and how he wishes next time myself or my husband goes overseas to serve we get blown up. Yep. So I don't think it is about the kids. The oldest told him she did not want to go back until he improved his behaviour and his response was "too bad, I have a court order'.

        Your take on it?

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        • #49
          Apply for a motion to vary, if that is the case...

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          • #50
            In the meantime, you cannot withhold access. Regardless of what kind of an ass the ex is.

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            • #51
              Your motion to vary should be very specific...as it stands right now, you could force him to revise his flight plan, but he could have them back on Monday night.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by monkees View Post
                HammerDad-The order is worded as such "Every Thanksgiving from Friday after school until Monday"
                FWIW, I think that's pretty vague... What, exactly, happens "Friday after school"? His stance could be that his visit starts then, and so travel has to commence sufficiently early in order to land them at his location at 3:00pm. Your stance appears to be that travel to the airport starts after school.

                Personally, I would word the Agreement something like "under no circumstances will the children be allowed to miss school for the purpose of visitation unless agreed to in advance by both parents." Rough, but it's a start. I would also specify a "latest return time" (i.e. return to your location) such as "return travel is to be arranged such that the children arrive at their home airport no later than (insert time here) on the night prior to a school day." AND specify who is to make the arrangements: Him, you, jointly agreed?

                Once again, though, THIS TIME put them on the plane with a smile and a kiss and a promise that you'll have fun while they're gone and another promise that yours will be the first face they see when they get back.... Just my opinion, of course.

                Cheers!

                Gary

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by monkees View Post
                  HammerDad-The order is worded as such "Every Thanksgiving from Friday after school until Monday".
                  If it is worded exactly that way, I would read his parenting time with the children starts at 2:30pm, being the time they are regularly out of school. So with the 11am flight and a 1.5 hour duration, he gets about and extra 2 hours with the kids then he is legally entitled to per your agreement.

                  The way it is worded is what is going to cause you the problems because it says his time starts when the kids are out of school, not that the flight must be after such time. Yes, you could suggest that the next logical time for the kids to fly would be the 5pm flight, but he could turn around and find a 2:30 flight somewhere in another local city and direct you to put them on that flight, as his time starts at 2:30.

                  Anyway, I am not sure why you are putting up such a fuss on what appears to be 1 day of missed school. If you kids are struggling in school, you might have an argument. But if they aren't and dad is trying to save a buck or two, and in the process give himself a bit more time with his kids, I cannot see why you are in disagreement aside from wanting to stick strictly to wording that in actuality, isn't even in your favour.

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                  • #54
                    InterprovincialParent- Perhaps a bit of the topic at hand and I have asked around with no real clear answer. You have indicated you work in the legal field so perhaps you could shed insight on a question my daughter asked me. In regards to the visits with Dad, what would happen if she refused to go? Is there a magic age her feels on the whole matter are valid in the eyes of the law? I currently have to make her go. She hates it. I am at a loss. I have always told her she had to go and give him a chance and make the very best of it.

                    As for the motion I fear I will not have the time to have it filed in time but do want to make it more clear than it already is and would like to change the aspect of support. I feel it might be more reasonable if he just paid the support and I booked the flights to avoid any more issues such as this. I am just worried about stirring the proverbial pot so to speak as he does not want to be reasonable and seems to enjoy creating conflict and involving the children in the mix.

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                    • #55
                      What a f'n surprise.

                      While Mommy trips over minutes and hours EVERYONE continues to disagree with her. But don't worry she will show up soon with another argument about what a dick Daddy is to her and her kids and rationalize her f'n ridiculous interpretation of her obsolete court order.

                      What a clown.
                      Last edited by dadtotheend; 09-21-2010, 04:30 PM.

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                      • #56
                        She's fighting "giving in". It has nothing to do with anything but the principle of it, and the past marriage history. This really is an example where "taking the high road" applies. Too bad the only satifaction either parent will get here is the fact that they "won" and not the that the kids did. Neither one of them is adult enough to see that.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by monkees View Post
                          In regards to the visits with Dad, what would happen if she refused to go? Is there a magic age her feels on the whole matter are valid in the eyes of the law? I currently have to make her go. She hates it. I am at a loss. I have always told her she had to go and give him a chance and make the very best of it.
                          I was wondering when idiotic Mom would figure out that you can't force a teenager to visit her parents.

                          Originally posted by monkees View Post
                          I am just worried about stirring the proverbial pot so to speak as he does not want to be reasonable and seems to enjoy creating conflict and involving the children in the mix.
                          WWWWWWWHHHHHHAAAAAATTTTT??????????? You worried???? About stirring the pot??????? About creating conflict?????? That's your best one yet.

                          You are so in the trees you don't even know there's a forest.

                          STOP READING THE GODDAMNED COURT ORDER AND THINK ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR F'N KIDS!!!!!

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by monkees View Post
                            I feel it might be more reasonable if he just paid the support and I booked the flights to avoid any more issues such as this. I am just worried about stirring the proverbial pot so to speak as he does not want to be reasonable and seems to enjoy creating conflict and involving the children in the mix.

                            WAIT a minute! The ONLY "control" he has here is booking the flights. And now you want to take that from him too?? This is the agreement you made! Seriously..it's not just him creating conflict!! How are you being reasonable by not sending the 4 HOURS early???

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by monkees View Post
                              InterprovincialParent- Perhaps a bit of the topic at hand and I have asked around with no real clear answer. You have indicated you work in the legal field so perhaps you could shed insight on a question my daughter asked me. In regards to the visits with Dad, what would happen if she refused to go? Is there a magic age her feels on the whole matter are valid in the eyes of the law? I currently have to make her go. She hates it. I am at a loss. I have always told her she had to go and give him a chance and make the very best of it.
                              The courts will begin to take into consideration the childs wishes at the age of 12. I say begin, as there are a number of factors to take into consideration:

                              maturity of the child
                              reasoning for the choice
                              any ancillary issues or perceived influence
                              [ edit - can't believe i missed this one] Best interests of the Child

                              Until ordered by a judge that the child does not have to attend parenting time with the father, the original order must be abided by and the child must attend.

                              The age of 12 is not a cutoff which allows the child to make the choice as there is still the court order, and the child should not be lead on to believe that they have a choice until the original order is amended.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by dadtotheend View Post
                                STOP READING THE GODDAMNED COURT ORDER AND THINK ABOUT WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR F'N KIDS!!!!!
                                Can I hear an "AMEN!" Brothers and Sisters?

                                How about an "OOOOOOORAH!" ???

                                Cheers!

                                Gary

                                Comment

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