Parental Alienation / Using the children as tools

[Pursuinghappiness]

The case conference is coming up, and I'm trying to understand what to expect.

In my experiences, not much happens at case conferences. They're more an opportunity to get all your mutual grievances out on the table.

Nothing really notable happens unless its done on consent and you two don't sound like you're close to an agreement yet.

My goal is to go in and point out the reasons why it's in the best interest of the children to spend more time with me, and less with him. And to offer a few options of settlement/resolution.

From what I read of your post, the reasons that you think the children should be with you are either weak or non-valid and largely about what a bad parent your ex is...not about what a good parent you are.

In my opinion, that's a bad strategy and one that judges don't like much.

The one really valuable argument in the list you gave was the abuse history and it doesn't look favorable to you. You need to work on getting the perception of that fixed....its damaging to you even getting shared custody let alone an inequitable custody split.

Without prejudice, he shows all the signs of a sociopath, and entitlement. Part of my conditions to allow joint custody/more access are for him to seek counselling and show an improvement in his behavior.

Every ex-spouse, me included, tries to self-diagnose their ex and no doubt that there's a lot of ex's who accurately guess their ex's personality disorder. But its not an argument for court because you are not a psychiatrist and anything you say along this line is not going to be welcome or seen as credible.

Also, given that you are asking for an inequitable division, I'd question why you're saying that its him who has a sense of entitlement.

People like you Janus, are the reason women who get sexually abused don't come forth, and filthy human beings get away with it.

To accuse someone of lying and being at fault for being abused, is sick.

Actually Janus gave you a harsh but pretty accurate picture of how your story comes across. You'd be foolish not to re-look at your strategy based on the feedback. Understand that if you come off as not credible here, you may have the same issue in court.

And by the way, false allegations of abuse are VERY common in court and that's because its a tactic that a lot of people try to gain an advantage in court.

You can feign outrage when confronted with this but, make no mistake, courts are well aware that this happens and often recognize that when they see it. There's a lot of push right now to start taking harsher actions against people who make these false allegations so if you're walking into court with no history, supporting police records or other proof....you need to consider how its going to be viewed.

Bottom line, I totally understand that you think you're the best parent for the job but based on the information you've given here...your argument isn't very strong...in fact, you've got some major problems with your case. I think you'd be better off finding a way to negotiate with your ex for a shared/parallel parenting arrangement (and being thankful if you get it).

I also really think you guys need to both stop what you're doing and saying in front of the children right away. You're dragging these kids into adult matters....showing them things they shouldn't see, telling them things they don't need to know. Its really disturbing that there are police reports with witness statements from the kids at all...even worse for you, they aren't in your favor.

[rockscan]

What would be the harm in a 50/50 situation with counseling for both parents and kids? That way you both learn how to stop being idiots to each other and dragging the kids into it unnecessarily. The bonus is the kids learn whats right and wrong and can see through both your bs to what is right. Takes away this perceived "power" you both have in the he said she said battle.

Im with Janus and Links and everyone else that says you need to get your shit together and stop with what happened and focus on the future--hopefully a positive one for your kids.

[Berner_Faith]

Agree with the above. If you can’t take the questioning here, how are you going to take the questioning in court? Unfortunately for you, your ex has a police report saying you are the agressive one. Whether that's how it happened in your mind or not, that's what the police determined. Due to these reports, you will have a hard time proving the kids are better off full time with you.

Your ex stands a better chance at getting more than 50% of the time than you do. Don't blame Janus for the reason people don't report. You did report and the police found in the favour of your ex.

As pointed out, you may want to settle this with your ex, 50-50 with parallel parenting, your outcome would be much better settling than if you went to court in my opinion.

[Pursuinghappiness]

Another thing that I'd mention is that when you're going through a contentious situation like this, things are very heated and the requests from either side are extreme.

The court will encourage that cooler heads prevail and, honestly, understanding that early is a lot better for your anxiety level. Things will settle down and you want to work towards that because if you don't, its not going to look favorably on you going forward.

[Links17]

I actually agreed with Janus and not you. Also, do you even ready my posts? Try reading the one I referenced... You may be surprised.

Found your case law. It was interesting.

You agreed with me in that you think she is scamming which I was saying on the other thread....

I can sign an autograph for you later...

[stripes]

I agree with what others have said about the questioning here being a taste of what questioning in court could be like.

That said, I think Tayken and Janus need to dial it down a bit. Bear in mind that when you're responding to a poster here, your response is being read not only by the OP and the happy band of ODF regulars, but also by a unknown number of other people who come to this site looking for help or advice or gauging the waters. For example, someone who was struggling with domestic violence would learn from this thread that if you come here and talk about abuse, you can expect to be subjected to a wave of vitriol based on the assumption that your story must be false, and that you are therefore "the worst" and your only saving grace is not having a penis (or something like that - not sure why Janus felt a penis needed to be in this thread).

I have no idea whether selfrep's story is true in every particular or whether it's a complete fabrication, and I don't need to know in order to respond to the question she put - what are my odds of getting this outcome in court? Even if you don't believe a poster, it's not necessary to go on public tirades about false allegations. You don't know who else might be listening/reading and how it might affect people who really are subjected to abuse and who already have plenty of people telling them they must be making it up.

[arabian]

I think that not much is known about this couple's situation aside from a few posts/threads.

Often when people contemplate separation/divorce they receive really bad advice from well-meaning friends. If the couple has tangible assets (real estate, securities) I don't think it is implausible to consider that lawyers often tell people what they want to hear. Longer couple stays at war with each other then the more money lawyers make.

Family court isn't designed to punish people for bad behaviour. It may seem like punishment when one receives an unfavourable ruling, however, the reality is that when children are involved family court is supposed to protect children. In all decisions involving children the court MUST decide in the best interests of the children.

In this case the poster wants to attempt to have her ex served with a restraining Order for incident(s) which happened prior to her separation. The first question that will be raised is why did she wait to do this? Doubt will be cast upon her because the current situation involves division of property, child and spousal support as well as child custody. The poster indicates that the police, at one time, indicated in a report that they found her to be the instigator/culprit of previous domestic violence.

I think that it is possible that with the fear of the upcoming case conferences the poster might be grasping at straws. I would encourage her to get legal advice as it seems she might be opening up Pandora's Box.

I agree with others that a move-forward strategy should be taken. Nothing good will come out of continued mud-flinging. There are many issues to be resolved and it is clear to me that these two will be unsuccessful in resolving their problems on their own.

[selfrep00]

I agree with what others have said about the questioning here being a taste of what questioning in court could be like.

That said, I think Tayken and Janus need to dial it down a bit. Bear in mind that when you're responding to a poster here, your response is being read not only by the OP and the happy band of ODF regulars, but also by a unknown number of other people who come to this site looking for help or advice or gauging the waters. For example, someone who was struggling with domestic violence would learn from this thread that if you come here and talk about abuse, you can expect to be subjected to a wave of vitriol based on the assumption that your story must be false, and that you are therefore "the worst" and your only saving grace is not having a penis (or something like that - not sure why Janus felt a penis needed to be in this thread).

I have no idea whether selfrep's story is true in every particular or whether it's a complete fabrication, and I don't need to know in order to respond to the question she put - what are my odds of getting this outcome in court? Even if you don't believe a poster, it's not necessary to go on public tirades about false allegations. You don't know who else might be listening/reading and how it might affect people who really are subjected to abuse and who already have plenty of people telling them they must be making it up.

Well said.

People are entitled to their opinion, but to denigrate someone based on a few posts, with the assumption that you know everything, is idiotic.

The restraining order has nothing to do with my case for custody, it's simply to free myself of his harassment, and keep myself safe, something I should be entitled to.

[selfrep00]

I think that not much is known about this couple's situation aside from a few posts/threads.

Often when people contemplate separation/divorce they receive really bad advice from well-meaning friends. If the couple has tangible assets (real estate, securities) I don't think it is implausible to consider that lawyers often tell people what they want to hear. Longer couple stays at war with each other then the more money lawyers make.

Family court isn't designed to punish people for bad behaviour. It may seem like punishment when one receives an unfavourable ruling, however, the reality is that when children are involved family court is supposed to protect children. In all decisions involving children the court MUST decide in the best interests of the children.

In this case the poster wants to attempt to have her ex served with a restraining Order for incident(s) which happened prior to her separation. The first question that will be raised is why did she wait to do this? Doubt will be cast upon her because the current situation involves division of property, child and spousal support as well as child custody. The poster indicates that the police, at one time, indicated in a report that they found her to be the instigator/culprit of previous domestic violence.

I think that it is possible that with the fear of the upcoming case conferences the poster might be grasping at straws. I would encourage her to get legal advice as it seems she might be opening up Pandora's Box.

I agree with others that a move-forward strategy should be taken. Nothing good will come out of continued mud-flinging. There are many issues to be resolved and it is clear to me that these two will be unsuccessful in resolving their problems on their own.

The basis for my restraining order isn't based on events that happened prior to the separation. The events that happened prior to separation show a trend to his behavior, and what he is capable of.

The basis for my restraining order is on events that have happened since the separation and continue to happen. I was getting hundreds of emails a month, multiple hundreds of texts with threats, and "traps" that if I didn't reply to, would be used against me in court.

After blocking communications, I left the phone line open for emergency calls about the children. He would call and make threats over the phone, and claim that conversations never happened. He continued to send emails, knowing I had blocked them, and stated that he would tell the courts that I ignored important issues about the children and failed to co-parent.

This is only part of the behavior I've been dealing with.

I just want to move on with my life, something he can't seem to understand, I got a divorce to be free of him, and I have that right.

Communicating about the children is one thing, being subjected to constant harassment and threat is another.

[arabian]

Thanks for the clarification.

Have you checked out the Our Family Wizard program? Perhaps he would agree to use it or you can request that, along with a restraining Order, that the OFW be the only means of communication?

Just a thought.

[Pursuinghappiness]

That said, I think Tayken and Janus need to dial it down a bit. Bear in mind that when you're responding to a poster here, your response is being read not only by the OP and the happy band of ODF regulars, but also by a unknown number of other people who come to this site looking for help or advice or gauging the waters. For example, someone who was struggling with domestic violence would learn from this thread that if you come here and talk about abuse, you can expect to be subjected to a wave of vitriol based on the assumption that your story must be false, and that you are therefore "the worst" and your only saving grace is not having a penis (or something like that - not sure why Janus felt a penis needed to be in this thread).

Well, the issue for this particular OP is that the data doesn't support her assertions.

But, in general, DV should go through at least the same level (and probably more) of scrutiny as any other allegation. There's no doubt, none, that DV charges are often used as a tactic in court against the other parent to gain advantage. And the person who is falsely accused often faces far more serious repercussions than the person who lies.

Therefore, I think its appropriate that people remind those going into court that they need to have decisive evidence of their allegations and can't just make an emotional plea to be believed. Courts operate on evidence. That may sound cold but its factual and its the only thing that protects BOTH parties.

In my opinion, like the other posters on this thread, this OP isn't meeting a basic level of the evidence criteria that would be required for court. Pointing that out to anyone isn't vitriolic.

I also think this site isn't necessarily the best place to come for DV support and sympathy. This site is more along the lines of information about prep and strategy for family law actions.

[Pursuinghappiness]

He continued to send emails, knowing I had blocked them, and stated that he would tell the courts that I ignored important issues about the children and failed to co-parent.

I think you both have this "I'm going to tell on you in court" behavior that is indicative of two people who haven't actually been through the court system yet.

To anyone who's been through the process 99.9% of what you think is relevant, based on your posts, they probably won't give a flying crap about and the same is true of your ex's silly threats.

Courts are highly unlikely to get into the detailed minutia of your daily interaction with your ex. And more you try to bring them to this level, the more likely they're going to blow you off.

Family law is designed to do one thing and that one thing is not to listen to your complaints and issues. Its designed to get you to settle and move along. Period.

Judges want to see litigants/parents who are showing that they have reasonable compromises to fairly settle their cases in a way that optimizes the situation for the kids and is fair to both ex-spouses.

You're fine to ignore your ex. His threats are silly and baseless. In the future, you can communicate by email and ignore anything that you think isn't relevant to parenting issues.

[selfrep00]

I think you both have this "I'm going to tell on you in court" behavior that is indicative of two people who haven't actually been through the court system yet.

To anyone who's been through the process 99.9% of what you think is relevant, based on your posts, they probably won't give a flying crap about and the same is true of your ex's silly threats.

Courts are highly unlikely to get into the detailed minutia of your daily interaction with your ex. And more you try to bring them to this level, the more likely they're going to blow you off.

Family law is designed to do one thing and that one thing is not to listen to your complaints and issues. Its designed to get you to settle and move along. Period.

Judges want to see litigants/parents who are showing that they have reasonable compromises to fairly settle their cases in a way that optimizes the situation for the kids and is fair to both ex-spouses.

You're fine to ignore your ex. His threats are silly and baseless. In the future, you can communicate by email and ignore anything that you think isn't relevant to parenting issues.

That's actually good news. I'm sure once I get a feel of how the case conference plays out, I'll have a better handle on how things will play out, and I'm starting to understand that I can ignore him.

The parent side of me gets to me though, and I feel the need to answer the phone, thinking something might be wrong with the children.

I would like something in place that only allows him to communicate with me about the children, which sounds like a peace bond, since a restraining order kind of goes against the best interest of the children.. depending on how you look at our situation.

[selfrep00]

Thanks for the clarification.

Have you checked out the Our Family Wizard program? Perhaps he would agree to use it or you can request that, along with a restraining Order, that the OFW be the only means of communication?

Just a thought.

I have. We used it, but he just used it as an expensive way to send me emails through there, so it really wasn't being used as a Family Tool at all.

His rationale to sending me non parenting emails via the tool, was that I had blocked emails. There's a reason I blocked emails, and in my opinion, does not give him the right to use a parenting tool to send threats, and communications about non-parenting issues.

[arabian]

If he has threatened you using OFW then that might be something to take with you to the court when you apply a peace bond/restraining order....

Others with experience using the program (which I do not) can offer some ideas perhaps.