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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 09-12-2013, 02:49 AM
Karver Karver is offline
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Has anyone had a mediator, who's a lawyer, make an income determination out of a bunch of corporate financials? I would think that they are not the people to make that decision. My ex thinks he is going to walk into a mediation with a 100 pages of financials and explain what they mean and the mediators going to get it and make a call. I think this is a waste of time and money- am I wrong?
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:14 AM
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NBDad NBDad is offline
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Of course you would also walk in there, already having those financials, and having paid a Chartered Accountant to do a brief summary of what that crap load of info means.

Counter with an Arbitrator. At least then the decision is legally binding and isn't such a waste of money.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:57 AM
North of 40 North of 40 is offline
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Hey There;

Ya, I can't speak for your mediator but mine wouldn't have had a clue.

Nice person ... but it's not happening. On mine, after my lawyer looked over the 'signed and witnessed agreement', he found an accounting error where by I would have payed 50k more than required.

Mind, lawyers fees seem to be eating up and money saved as we sort all the bs out.

Moreover, this I found out later a 'mediated agreement is not binding'). So if one party's lawyer decides to shoot the agreement down, you are going to go the court route.

Mediator cost me approximately 5k, all out the window.

My humble thoughts.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:45 AM
dinkyface dinkyface is offline
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A mediated agreement is like any other agreement - it becomes legally binding when you sign it. And less easy to shoot down if both parties get independent legal advice (ILA) before signing..

An arbitrated agreement is where you agree to let someone else write up the agreement based on what THEY think is best. Kind of like going to trial and having the judge decide for you.

Arbitrators, because they are acting like judges, have to follow stricter rules on disclosure/usage of evidence. Mediators can do whatever they want.

Last edited by dinkyface; 09-12-2013 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:30 AM
Mess Mess is offline
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IMHO mediation EARLY in the process for at least 2 sessions, rather than leaving it in the hands of respective lawyers to run up the costs with 6 months of back-and-forth letters.

If mediation seems to be going nowhere, you are now free to go to court, stating that mediation was attempted and went nowhere. You should avoid negotiating through your lawyer altogether, it is just really expensive and you are leaving it in hands of someone who benefits if it drags on and on.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:23 PM
frustratedwithex frustratedwithex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBDad View Post
Of course you would also walk in there, already having those financials, and having paid a Chartered Accountant to do a brief summary of what that crap load of info means.

Counter with an Arbitrator. At least then the decision is legally binding and isn't such a waste of money.
Karver, I hope you are not in mediation without your lawyer present?

Follow NBDad's advice. You agree to mediation only if it is med/arb, where Arbitration happens when mediation fails. You are all over the place in your understanding of what is allowable under the law.

I have been exactly where you are now. Ex disputing his income. Or rather, what should be included and what he considered "allowable deductions".

This is what I learnt, he can ask for any deduction he wants, however, the law may not agree with him.

He came into our lawyer assisted mediation with a binder full of information that stated why he believed certain items should be deducted from his income. And we spent about 3-4 very lengthy mediation appointments discussing these points.

Our mediator was a family law lawyer and became the arbitrator as well. (I can PM you the name if you want).

She very plainly told him that these items he wanted excluded from his income did not qualify under family law.

She also stated that in mediation WE could agree otherwise, but if she had to arbitrate, she must follow what the law allows.

In the interest of settling, I did agree to some of these deductions. Ultimately we did arbitrate. He was not satisfied with the deductions I agreed to, and continued to ask for more as well as asking me to forgo other assets.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:12 PM
Karver Karver is offline
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Yes, my lawyer will be there.
I tried to tell my ex we should do the forensic guy and find out numbers once and for all, but he's paying for the mediator this Monday, so my lawyer says we should go and hopefully he'll get an idea on how income will be viewed.
I'm sure he wants the mediator because he's sure he can convince them he's right.
I expect many binders showing up as well.
I know I am all over the place.... It's a crazy time.
So Frustrated, is this done for you now or are you still battling over the money? I would think at some point a decision HAS to be made?!!
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:17 PM
FB_ FB_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karver View Post
Yes, my lawyer will be there.
I tried to tell my ex we should do the forensic guy and find out numbers once and for all, but he's paying for the mediator this Monday, so my lawyer says we should go and hopefully he'll get an idea on how income will be viewed.
I'm sure he wants the mediator because he's sure he can convince them he's right.
I expect many binders showing up as well.
I know I am all over the place.... It's a crazy time.
So Frustrated, is this done for you now or are you still battling over the money? I would think at some point a decision HAS to be made?!!
The problem is he's never going to agree even if the mediator tells him he is wrong.

A total waste of time and money IMO. You are going to have to pay your lawyer to be there when you could use that time to be in court.

Go to court get the judge to tell him with an order that he's wrong.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:53 PM
frustratedwithex frustratedwithex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karver View Post
Yes, my lawyer will be there.
I tried to tell my ex we should do the forensic guy and find out numbers once and for all, but he's paying for the mediator this Monday, so my lawyer says we should go and hopefully he'll get an idea on how income will be viewed.
I'm sure he wants the mediator because he's sure he can convince them he's right.
I expect many binders showing up as well.
I know I am all over the place.... It's a crazy time.
So Frustrated, is this done for you now or are you still battling over the money? I would think at some point a decision HAS to be made?!!
I don't know if you need a forensic guy. I think Mess answered this for you in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FB_ View Post
The problem is he's never going to agree even if the mediator tells him he is wrong.

A total waste of time and money IMO. You are going to have to pay your lawyer to be there when you could use that time to be in court.

Go to court get the judge to tell him with an order that he's wrong.
I agree with this. He is never going to agree with you or a mediator. Been there, done that.

A) - In Alberta you have a few choices. Binding Dispute Resolution, this is a judge, may not be a family law judge, ask your lawyer about this. It takes a few months before an appointment is available. Don't let that deter you.

By the time the mediation part of mine was done, many months had passed. Between trying to fit in mediation sessions with 3 lawyers, my exs schedule and my time, as well as the holidays and vacation time we were able to average about 2 mediation sessions a month, sometimes more.

Time is on your side. You will be able to make better informed decisions. He does not want time, the faster he forces a decision from you, the better for him. He wants you confused.

B) - Binding Med/Arb with a Family Law lawyer. Mediation with the understanding that Arbitration will follow.

The arbitration looks similar to court in that you will submit affidavits, financials, briefs, and you may under go questioning. As well as anything else the arbitrator asks for. This is expensive.

The goal is to get you to settle in mediation.

What ever you decide, insist that it is binding. Do not agree to anything that isn't. It may be tempting to attend Mondays mediation because he is paying for it, but you should understand that his only goal is to get you to agree with him. He will not have changed his position. And you will be paying your lawyer.

One other observation I made during my many mediation sessions, is the mediator will look to you to compromise. It's easier to get the person who is less high conflict to come closer to the high conflict persons demands. So be prepared.

My issues were settled late last year through arbitration, divorce granted this summer.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:00 PM
Pursuinghappiness Pursuinghappiness is offline
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Quote:
The problem is he's never going to agree even if the mediator tells him he is wrong.

A total waste of time and money IMO. You are going to have to pay your lawyer to be there when you could use that time to be in court.

Go to court get the judge to tell him with an order that he's wrong.
I probably agree with this but its because of my own experience with my ex. In reality, no one can tell you if mediation will work or if you're wasting money...it depends on how you and your ex operate. If he's is willfully not disclosing, I don't see how you have a chance in hell of making this work though.

Personally, there is no way it would have worked for me and I would have wasted a lot of time and money going this route.
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