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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 08-29-2013, 09:59 PM
Tiredfella Tiredfella is offline
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Unhappy post-secondary expenses at 89%!

quick review of the situation, I pay support based on order from2009;

ex and daughter(D) have a fight, cops come, ex kicks D out to live with me. Support to ex stops. 5 months with me and then returns to moms before college starts. (college is 15 mins from my house, 45 from hers). mom demands support start immediately. I ask for a couple months to get things straightened out. FRO needs new order to re-open our file. Ex refuses to make agreement with a mediator.

this week letter comes in the mail from ex's lawyer. support in arrears for 2 months as per order (D did return to her house 2 months ago). lawyer wants financials since 2009 for possible back pay. Ex files T4s since 2010 showing income no more than 11000/yr. (own business, mostly cash). Lawyer says that based on incomes, I am responsible of 89% of all college fees. Also ex stating I am refusing to contribute and pay support.

I have been paying on time all the time (16 yrs). have not refused anything and was waiting for order from court for FRO like usual. We have NEVER exchanged financials in 16 yrs other than letter of income from my employer when asked.

ex makes much more than claimed. Her common law and her live in a 480k house and he makes about 60-80k/yr. They just bought the house last year. ( I know his income doesn't matter, but come on... the math doesn't add up)

uncle has given a gift to D to help out with school (1-4k). OSAP was apparently applied for but denied. I can't see the application due to on line password. I use the estimator and it shows that a small amount available.

have ALWAYS been in Ds life and accessible to ex. she has never asked for financials or $$ in the past.(only to up support when I changed jobs and in 2009 when order changed. First order was in '97)

I have applied for a bursary through employer, received it. My benefits qualify for a tuition rebate. purchased school books on line at more than half the price.

I have conversations with ex recorded trying to come to get somesort of explanation on costs but am just simply met with "send a cheque".... can't afford a lawyer and was going to respond to the letter myself. I knew ex would go for money as soon as D went back so I have been able to save up the "arrears" and keep that aside and will continue.

Im lost..... going to ask for full financial disclosure on her part, the OSAP application. but to top it all off, lawyer says if I go to court my ex will seek legal fees.....

Is this seriously happening?? where to go from here? D has never gone without, we just helped her buy a car last year, she is on my insurance plan as it is much cheaper than exs and cell phone on my employee plan cuz it is much cheaper- daughter works and pays for these herself. she pays for most things herself. I know some be asking what I did to piss ex off, but I have no clue....... it's been 16 yrs............ I have never even asked to have my union dues accounted for or anything like that!

do I need to start filling anything? or just respond to the letter?
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2013, 10:12 PM
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arabian arabian is offline
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Put money aside in case you lose and/or need money for legal fees in future, particularly if you have a psycho ex.

Let ex take you to court - don't respond to anything unless it's an order to appear in court and in that case then get a lawyer.

Sounds like your ex is just trying to bully you. Must be upsetting to receive a letter from a lawyer but don't let it upset you. Only deal with FRO and your lawyer. Don't engage whatsoever with your ex and certainly don't discuss this with your children.

Of course I hope other people who have more experience with this sort of thing will put in their 2bits worth.

Good for you for being a supportive and caring father over all of these years.

Last edited by arabian; 08-29-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:17 PM
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Just respond with your numbers laid out clearly - including bursary, your income, and estimate of your ex's incomes (use $20K if unskilled&unemployed - more if skilled&unemployed - it's much easier to get away with this 'imputation' if she is supported by a partner).

If they want more, they have to take it to court.

Makes sense that CS should recommence once she moved back to her mom's.

Maybe your ex's partner drew the line at paying your kid's tuition?

Is your kid paying part? That is very common. Or the bursary could be considered as her part. Then you'd split the remainder proportionally (ignoring your ex's partner's income).

Last edited by dinkyface; 08-29-2013 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:28 PM
Tiredfella Tiredfella is offline
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That's what I have done in the letter I was going to send back to the lawyer. All numbers are there, letter of employment being drafted by my HR for my salary since 2009. She actually works 5-6 days a week in the area of $250 cash a day..... but I can't prove that right now unless I get witnesses. in a 4 hr job she gets paid $160.... So am I really on the hook for 89%???? I didn't collect a dime from her when my daughter was with me. I was more concerned about D..... I've religiously paid my support.... and obviously was going to help with college but 89%!! backpay???? so D and my current family have to suffer cuz of a greedy ex........ wow... What about getting her to provide these documents?
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:33 PM
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best money you can spend would be by hiring a private detective and getting the "goods" - I wish I had done this many years ago. It would have certainly been much cheaper than the endless litigation.

Private detectives know how to bundle things that are legally presented in court. If you have doubts ask your lawyer to refer you. Might be the best money you ever spent.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:40 PM
Tiredfella Tiredfella is offline
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in addition to my other questions, is it possible to give some of my CS directly to my child since she is an adult and in college. Also, if there is an amount of backpay to be agreed upon, could that be directed to my daughter?? there is no way she has gone without over the past three years.... I believe they have to show how it would benefit her, correct? If so, that money would def. help out in college but with me paying 89% there isn't much left! lol!
I would really like to respond to this letter but just want to keep it factual and make sure I'm entitled to what I'm asking for, simply because it is nothing but lies.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:56 PM
dinkyface dinkyface is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiredfella View Post
is it possible to give some of my CS directly to my child since she is an adult and in college?
Also, if there is an amount of backpay to be agreed upon, could that be directed to my daughter??
there is no way she has gone without over the past three years....
I believe they have to show how it would benefit her, correct?
No, no and no.

Like the PI idea - run the #'s to see what budget would make sense given the possibility of reducing to maybe 50% tuition. Then pay based on what you find, and let her take you to court if she doesn't like it.

Last edited by dinkyface; 08-30-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:40 PM
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The ex should be imputed an income equivalent to either of full time min. wage or whatever her earnings potential is if she has education/training/etc.

11000 is less than full time min wage, so she should be quitting that self employed stuff and slinging coffee for a living, she'd make more. She has an obligation to help support herself and her child. If she CHOOSES to only work part time, or not at all and allow the new spouse to support her, then you would request that she be imputed full time hours @ min wage, OR that her HOUSEHOLD income be used for the purposes of determining support. (Which brings her spouse's income into play)

Imputation and Undue Hardship are the ONLY times you can bring the spouse's income into it.

Any section 7 should account for her ability to earn.

How often does the daughter see you? is it at least 40%?

You should counter with:

1. offset table support based on your income of X and the ex's income of Y (imputed as per above)

2. Proportional share of 2/3rd of post secondary expenses (LIST THEM!), with the requirement that the child obtain passing grades and those grades are made available to you each semester. If the child does not acquire passing grades, then your obligation to contribute to post secondary terminates.

Basically you take tuition/fees/etc and divide / 3.

1/3 is paid by the child, via part time work, savings, bursaries, loans, etc.

The remaining 2/3 is what you and the ex split proportional to income.

(Also note: You should only have to pay for public transportation if such is available...how much is a bus pass? A car is NOT required unless there is no other transportation available...if it takes her 3 hours to get there by bus so what? not your problem. There is a viable method of transportation available, ergo that is the ONLY cost you should be responsible for.)

No arrears given your ex paid no support when the daughter was with you full time. CS amounts to be paid effective XX-XX-XXXX

You can also offer to have the CS paid directly to the child to assist her with HER share of the post secondary...it will probably NOT fly if your ex is money hungry...but you can at least try.

The threat of legal fees is a pretty common tactic. Make sure you have a reasonable offer to settle on the table, as long as it's close to what actually occurs (assuming that it goes to trial) then you won't pay fees. You only get nailed with costs IF your position is unreasonable...yours is not.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:33 PM
Tiredfella Tiredfella is offline
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thanks for the input guys, no I don't have my D 40% of the time....... As far as the bus pass thing goes, if she lived with me it would be free as it's included as part of the school's deal with the region...... It runs about $250/mth since it has to be a GO bus from another region...... My daughter was only with me for 5 months though and if you go buy her BS wage it would have been like $50/month. I did recently find out though, that in mid 2010 her and her common-law made about 100k on the sale of their house? would that come into play at all??? Sorry for all of the questions , but all the lawyers I've spoken with tell me to bend over...... kills me that none will even try unless you got a huge wallet. no wonder most case law is in favor of the payee.... Im just trying to keep things reasonable......... not looking to deprive my kid of anything but her mom sure doesn't think the same of me apparently!!

Also, I have messages from her back when she kicked our D out that states "she can kiss her free ride in college good-bye and that she no longer will get any support from me" I said it wasn't going to be a free ride anyways, suggesting my D should contribute, and all I got back was "well it was going to be but not anymore!!"...... now that D is back at her moms I guess the free ride is back on the table.............
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:15 AM
Tiredfella Tiredfella is offline
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Default offset tables??

In the first part of your last response, I don't understand what you mean by "offset table support based on Income ....."
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