Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-10-2016, 11:22 PM
hdc1894 hdc1894 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 26
hdc1894 is on a distinguished road
Default Entitlement

Well, everyone warned me and things are getting a bit heated now to say the least. Lots of talk about lawyering up and i am an SOB, etc. So, my questions surround what is fair regarding SS. I know Child support is set in stone and not worried about that.

The situation: Married 17 years. One child at 14 years. Both good parents in my opinion.

Her: 47 yrs, recently graduated with Masters Degree. Has had one part time job for years at $26.50 hr. Now two jobs, too soon to tell on income from the other but pays $38 bucks an hour. Work force history is one year off when son born, one mutually agreed upon year off to stay home with son, 9 months off after move for my career then into current 26.50 PT job. Median average for her type of work in Ontario is $65K/yr

Me: 43 yrs. MBA . $110ish K a year.

Wondering on opinions for SS ruling form collaborative lawyer?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:01 AM
Links17 Links17 is offline
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,166
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

How long has it been?

What was your family income at the time of marriage?

What was her role/sacrifice during the marriage?

What is the custody arrangement?

What was her income at seperation time?

How much are you paying now?

What was her career path before the marriage?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:10 AM
Links17 Links17 is offline
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,166
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

Based on your post I will start you off

17 year marriage = 0 entitlement
1yr + 1yr + 9months minimum = 3 years at maximum compensation

I will assume she took: 4 years pt to do masters degree + 4 years worked part time. No sacrifices for the family there.

I will also assume (like a judge would) that she worked 10 years PART-TIME so she can spend more time at home with your kid. So we'll say that is almost as if she DID NOT work for 5 entire years (so 5 years of sacrifice).

So we have 3 years + 5 years of sacrifices so I would say 4 years of support to equalize your net incomes (including all family govt. benefits, tax benefits etc...) assuming you have shared custody.

A judge won't be so mathematical but my logic is good - a judge might be more generous but it'll cost a lot more to find out.

You can buy her out for 3 years cash of the proposed 4 year amount considering that if you get laid off she "already got her money", if she gets rich "she already got her money", and there isn't much of a tax advantage since she already makes some decent amount of money (for a woman anyways... )

Last edited by Links17; 03-11-2016 at 12:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:28 AM
hdc1894 hdc1894 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 26
hdc1894 is on a distinguished road
Default Thanks links

A few points of clarification.

She took 16 months to do accelerated masters. Last 4 months off totally for a field placement.she would argue she has given up huge for our kid but I am very involved father. Coaching, lots of time spent and involvement in my opinion. Very good relationship with my son.

At beginning of marriage total salary together was 70k ish

Not separated yet and just getting heated with words like leaving her in poverty, her getting more support that what I quoted from mysupportcalculator.

Custody will be at least 50% shared but I would take more if my son expressed he wanted to live with me. Can he have a say given his age?



One last question. On mysupportcalculator I understand the length of support by I don't understand what puts the $ amount of support at low, med, high? Any explanation?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-11-2016, 12:54 AM
Links17 Links17 is offline
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,166
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
I am very involved father. Coaching, lots of time spent and involvement in my opinion. Very good relationship with my son.
This is kind of irrelevant. It is more about what she sacrificed more than you.... and the assumption will be that she moved for you, worked PT for you stayed home for you.

Quote:
Custody will be at least 50% shared but I would take more if my son expressed he wanted to live with me. Can he have a say given his age?
Yes, but I would suggest for simplicity sake just do 50/50 unless he has a good reason (like his mom is mental or bringing guys around and he isn't comfortable).
Once you break the 60/40 ranges people lose their mind.

Quote:
low, med, high?
Negotiation tactics but i belive it is based on what net disposable incomes will be like 37.5-40-42.5

You can read the SSAG (I suggest you do) to get an understanding of the factors involved
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-11-2016, 11:06 AM
OrleansLawyer OrleansLawyer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,787
OrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
17 year marriage = 0 entitlement
While there is no presumption of entitlement, if there is disparity in income then people will look to spousal support for a solution.

If there was cohabitation before the marriage that would increase the length of the relationship.

Quote:
1yr + 1yr + 9months minimum = 3 years at maximum compensation
That has no basis in law.

Quote:
4 years pt to do masters degree + 4 years worked part time. No sacrifices for the family there.
Was she on a different career track? Was the timing of her education, or the location, changed for the family? If she worked part time, was it due to family circumstances (such as children or homemaking)?

Quote:
I will also assume (like a judge would) that she worked 10 years PART-TIME so she can spend more time at home with your kid. So we'll say that is almost as if she DID NOT work for 5 entire years (so 5 years of sacrifice).
Not only does that have no basis in law it also has no basis in common sense.

Quote:
So we have 3 years + 5 years of sacrifices so I would say 4 years of support to equalize your net incomes
No basis in law, and moving into the territory of dangerously wishful thinking.

Quote:
On mysupportcalculator I understand the length of support by I don't understand what puts the $ amount of support at low, med, high? Any explanation?
The SSAG are based on the average results for cases taken over a period of time, with outliers removed. Spousal support is more art than science and so there is a range of suggested support values.

Quote:
it is based on what net disposable incomes will be like 37.5-40-42.5
No it isn't. High support will be capped at 50-50 NDI (if it reaches that amount) in an equal timesharing arrangement for the children, but otherwise it does not rest upon the NDI split.

Quote:
read the SSAG (I suggest you do) to get an understanding of the factors involved
Sound advice.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-11-2016, 01:46 PM
hdc1894 hdc1894 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 26
hdc1894 is on a distinguished road
Default

Orleans, Thanks for reply. From what you say a large income difference pretty much ensures SS. It's 70K difference right now but should be more like 50K.

How does number of years of no job or part time work influence entitlement? Is there some sort of direct correlation or is it really just whatever the two parties agree to through mediation or litigation?

I want to stay away form wishful thinking but I really have no idea what to expect.

I like the idea of trying to pay out as a lump sum if possible and agreed by her. I will read the SSAG for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-11-2016, 02:57 PM
OrleansLawyer OrleansLawyer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,787
OrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
From what you say a large income difference pretty much ensures SS.
Not necessarily - but it does lead to the question of, why do the parties have such different income?

Quote:
How does number of years of no job or part time work influence entitlement?
Spousal support is a two step test.
Step one: is their entitlement yes/no?
Step two: amount, which is guided by SSAG tables.

DISCLAIMER:
Everything said in this, and any other, message is not intended to be taken as legal advice. I do not hold myself out to be a lawyer, adult or literate. Any resemblance this or any other message may have to legal advice or common sense is entirely coincidental. This message was generated through the combination of a monkey hitting a keyboard with a rock and advanced spell check software.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-11-2016, 03:21 PM
Links17 Links17 is offline
Hand of Justice
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: In the Shadows
Posts: 3,166
Links17 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
Step two: amount, which is guided by SSAG tables.
and duration...

What you are saying almost implies a woman who was out of work for one year is entitled to the same amount of support as somebody who was out of work for 20 years.

I took into consideration all the impacts on her career due the marriage and based it upon the starting point that for every year of non-work she is entitled to 0.5 years of support.

I am ACTUALLY a tribe of monkeys who have launched guerilla warfare on a computer.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-11-2016, 03:42 PM
OrleansLawyer OrleansLawyer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,787
OrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the roughOrleansLawyer is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
What you are saying almost implies a woman who was out of work for one year is entitled to the same amount of support as somebody who was out of work for 20 years.
A person out of work for one year may not be entitled to support.

However, once entitlement is established the matter is then looked at under the guidelines, which provide a range. As can be noted from reading the SSAG, the strength of the claim can speak to where on the range.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question of Entitlement & Judge's Discretion Ontario_Dad_41162 Divorce & Family Law 9 09-09-2011 03:47 PM
Spousal Support Entitlement Stressed by Ex Introductions 15 04-14-2010 08:12 PM
Sense of Entitlement got2bkid Political Issues 7 08-28-2009 01:43 PM
Does Ex Need Lawyer to Obtain Entitlement to my Pension in Common Law Separation cyanaura Common Law Issues 12 03-30-2009 06:44 PM
Business entitlement of assets after seperation date? hubby Financial Issues 2 03-29-2006 01:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:20 PM.