Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Parenting Issues

Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:43 AM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 24
seeker101 is on a distinguished road
Default Videotaping during exchanges

As some of you may know, I was charged with assault on ex and after trial, it was dismissed. Tbh, I am traumatized by that experience and don't want to have more allegations thrown at me. This is why I record all my exchanges which occur at mom's residence at her demand.

Ex understandably doesn't like it when I record exchanges and told me to stop multiple times. I have always maintained that if she requires me to attend her residence, I will continue to record to protect all parties from any further allegations.

Well today, after exchange, I got a voice mail from police saying my ex complained to them that I record her and they want to speak to me about it.

I will be returning the officer's call soon but wanted to get opinion from you guys. I believe I'm not in the wrong and while it may be an uncomfortable position but haven't broken any laws.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-01-2019, 06:32 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,036
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

First, you don't need to talk to the police. Simply ask if you are being charged. If yes then say nothing and hire a lawyer. If they say no you are more than welcome to thank them for the call and end the call. I wouldn't even call them back. If you have a lawyer have them call the police. They represent you.

This is a civil matter and the police should not be involved.

Police have no jurisdiction in a civil matter. As well, they record everything you are saying. A sympathetic police officer to the other parent is just doing this to gather evidence of a negative emotional reaction to put into an incident report.

Second... Stop recording the exchanges. Judges hate this. You should be doing the exchange INSIDE a McDonalds restaurant (or similar) where there are 3rd party recording and lots of customers around to witness stuff. These are truly independent witnesses to the conduct at an exchange.

THe other option is to have a 3rd party attend with you. Not a great option as most people bring a biased party with them like a friend. If you can afford it hire a registered PI to attend with you. Previous police service is always best. Its not cheap though.

There is no police enforcement clause then the police have no jurisdiction unless you broke a law.

https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/...ad.php?t=17252

The case cited in that link has 15. It is known to the judiciary and most family law justices.

If you *need* to record have a dashcam installed in your car. Park with the cam pointing at the house. Stay in the car. Notify the parent that you have arrived and then have the children walkout. Don't leave the car.

The other parent is trying to have a police incident created as they are working on a theory that was widely held in the late 90s early 00s that getting a criminal charge will get them sole custody.

Fortunate for you it is 2019.

80. As Justice Quinn recently commented in a footnote in Stirling v. Blake 2013 ONSC 5216 (CanLII), 2013 ONSC 5216:
“When parties involve police in their access disputes, they might as well climb onto the roof of their house, straddle the peak, and, with outreached arms, proclaim to the heavens that they have failed as parents and as human beings.”
The courts quote that quite often when a parent tries the police baiting tactic these days. Don't engage with the police.

Last edited by Tayken; 12-01-2019 at 06:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-01-2019, 02:24 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,198
Janus will become famous soon enoughJanus will become famous soon enough
Default

1. Video taping and legality

You are definitely allowed to videotape every single exchange that takes place in a public venue. This is true even if she says that you are not allowed to video tape the exchange.

2. Is it a good plan?

As Tayken said, maybe not. If the kids are old enough to understand that you are taping the exchange that's probably not going to do much for their emotional well being.

3. Alternative

Take an audio recording of every exchange. Do not announce it. Just do it. You don't have to warn the other party when you are recording them. You can only use the recording to save yourself. You cannot use it to show that the other side is guilty of anything.

Well, you can try, but it won't work

4. Should you talk to the police?

Emphatically no. The job of the police is to get you into trouble. Nothing you say can help you, but anything you say can definitely hurt you. Police are generally biased against fathers, don't expect sympathy, even if the guy on the other end sounds sympathetic. He is lying. His job is to get you to say something incriminating.

5. I really want to talk to the police!

Fine, but keep the conversation as brief as possible. Remember, nothing you say can help you.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-01-2019, 05:05 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 24
seeker101 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post

5. I really want to talk to the police!
No, I really don't, lol. Just wasn't sure if I'm obligated to return the officer's call. I will not be calling back the police but rather, will write to the ex saying if she really is that concerned about me recording, then I'm happy to move exchanges to a public place effective immediately (not like I haven't suggested that before).

I read Patterson v Powell, 2014ONSC1419 by J. Pazaratz and Stirling v Blake, 2013ONSC5216 by J. Quinn that Tayken shared. Very well written and raise some profound questions.

I especially liked para 26 by J. Pazaratz, where he states:
Quote:
"Some embattled parents might be quite content to call the police for every timesharing exchange. They may perceive dialling 911 as being faster, cheaper, and more emotionally satisfying than returning to court. Is that potential abuse of community resources – not to mention abuse of the children themselves – something we want to leave to the discretion of relentless litigators? Surely s. 36(2) of the CLRA is intended to be a protection for children, not a weapon for disgruntled parents."
Might I add, within the last few months, I have heard the word "police" from my ex more times than I have in my entire life. One of those occasions included where I sent her a voluntary support payment via e-transfer, while no contact restrictions were in place. Later that evening, I got a call from police saying my ex alleged I contacted her ... no charges were laid (the e-transfer was of course accepted after a few days later ).

I also liked the following footnote by J. Quinn:
Quote:
"It has been my non-clinical observation that many litigants who reach the trial stage in Family Court suffer from some form of personality disorder. Perhaps Family Court should be placed under the Ministry of Health. Too many litigants hijack Family Court, squandering valuable and diminishing resources in the process. Anyone can walk into a court house and frivolously start or defend a proceeding that, like a runaway train, is difficult to halt in a timely manner and not before damage is done."
I think there's def a ring of truth to that. Too bad, I'm not a certified professional to declare my ex falls within it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-02-2019, 09:10 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,036
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

I wouldn't even acknowledge to the other parent that the police contacted you. I would send an offer to settle in accordance with the Rules the opportunity to change the pickup/drop off location to a different location. Very official offer to settle. A proper one. If you don't know what I am talking about or do not have a lawyer to prepare one... Don't say anything to the other parent and do what Janus said about audio recording.

You clearly are easily baited and in an emotional state where NO COMMUNICATIOn with the other parent is probably best.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:24 AM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 24
seeker101 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the solid advice. It eases my mind knowing police has no jurisdiction and I'm well within my rights to not engage with them. I haven't even informed the ex that police contacted me.

Pursuant to Rule 18, a signed, severable Offer has been served upon Opposing Counsel containing provisions for public place exchanges and gradual access expansion to include overnights.

Sure enough, ex wouldn't agree to any overnights even though current daytime access has been progressing in an excellent manner.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Curb side exchanges vs at the door ? tunnelight General Chat 11 01-28-2019 12:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.