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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:38 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
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Unhappy Spousal support entitlement, "disability" and BPD

Hey everyone,

I'd like some inputs on this situation:
2 kids, 10 and 14 (I am not debating child support if it has to be paid)

Cohabitation period: possibly 20 years depending on how it's counted
ie: 19.5 years if it gets counted by the time my name was on the lease or my official address was changed to our joint address.
20 years if you include the time I was crashing at her place as a student and for a few months as a "grown up with a job".

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) got worse and made life miserable, it triggered a bomb when I told her I wanted a divorce. "Abandonment" is the biggest fear of someone with BPD so yes, it was quite explosive.

She makes about 65k,
I make about 125k (and sometimes bonus / overtime).

The kicker comes from the fact that 3 years ago she ended up obtaining her disability retirement (genetic disease): Early Employer pension (small, ~13k / year) + CPP + LTD until 65. She is getting better (plays sports almost every day, was fine hiking on vacation, even dirt biked last summer...) yet is still on disability because of her genetic condition and the fact that she wasn't re-assessed (no way in hell it would be approved if she was to claim it now)

She never stopped working but of course her revenue (of 65k) is now "only" 75% of what she was earning before due to long term disability. She still has full health an dental insurance (~80% coverage?)

Equalization will take care of house which is paid and will be split, RRSPs will be split. There will definitely NOT be any undue hardship here.

Yet she claims that she "won't be able to pay all her bills (because she wants a 10 years mortgage, townhouses are expensive now!) thus needs SS because she will have no retirement, just a small pension (her RRSPs and house doesn't count??)". She wants the SS to be able to pay her house fast and invest into more RRSPs.

- Her income was not penalized because of kids
- I did not cause her disability (she's set for the next 20 years at 65k / year, then she hits 65)
- My income will possibly increase over time and once CS is done, the SS payments would go up drastically
- If cohabitation is indeed 20 years, this puts my lack of retirement in jeopardy because of the indeterminate period
- She also wants me to act as insurance to cover what her health insurance doesn't cover (which would have been covered by mine)


Her lawyer tells her that she is entitled to spousal support for an indeterminate duration.

Because of borderline personality disorder, everything is black or white. She sees her future dark (she'll be out of money even though her house will pretty much be paid for and she'll have guaranteed income) and I'm the one who wanted the divorce so I'm just trying to screw her over.

I don't mind helping a bit but this is ridiculous. And thanks to borderline personality disorder, it's always the "others" that are wrong so I get a bunch of nasty emails and phone calls here and there as well.

I currently see this as an open buffet... she can always get more and more until I die (after which she gets life insurance until she dies because having an expensive life insurance to guarantee this is part of the agreement) even though she says that "she will only ask for more if she needs it".

I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel and fear this will turn quite nasty because there is no reasoning with her: she feels that by not asking for 50-50 split of income she is making a compromise!).

Any advice? I feel powerless. I'm meeting with my lawyer tomorrow but figured that the more advice the better..

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  #2  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:58 AM
ifonlyihadknown ifonlyihadknown is offline
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An experience, good lawyer should have a gut feel as to a likely outcome is in your case. I was in a similar situation to yours and will never forget the feeling of rage, hopelessness, and panic when I realized that I would have to pay the "open buffet" SS for a long, long time.

Let us know what your lawyer says and you may be able to get more specific advice.
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:26 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifonlyihadknown View Post
I was in a similar situation to yours and will never forget the feeling of rage, hopelessness, and panic when I realized that I would have to pay the "open buffet" SS for a long, long time.
That describes the feeling pretty well.. I'm really fed up of it. I'm sure I've lost a few months of life due to stress!
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:18 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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I'm kind of in the same boat regarding the indefinite ss. Separated after almost 20 years of marriage. He keeps himself not functioning by not complying with medication. He is mentally ill. But I could be his work horse for the rest of my life. I don't make enough to support him and raise two kids on my own. He is unemployed. I don't have advice for you but I'm waiting to see the outcome after mediation. The system is very broken. I've not been able to sleep since I first heard he would be seeking spousal from me. This is from 2014!! Still at it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:13 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
The system is very broken. I've not been able to sleep since I first heard he would be seeking spousal from me. This is from 2014!! Still at it.
What ??? Am I reading this properly? 4-5 years later and nothing is resolved?

How does it work? I cannot buy anything until the agreement is signed because they need to know how much spousal and child support I'll pay. So we cannot sell the house because I currently live there with the kids. She's in a furnished airbnb and sees the kids a few times a week (children aid society got involved when it turned explosive). But her lease is over next month... so I have to figure out what to do. This situation cannot last years!

And with borderline personality disorder, everything is black or white. No grey... so mediation will be fun.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:51 AM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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My exspouse due to his mental Illness and refusal to comply with medical treatment was stalling the whole process for years by hiring and firing lawyers as soon as he felt they were working on my side. He suffers from paranoia and delusions. So it was a nightmare. Then he had no lawyer and tried to represent himself putting me further in legal debt because you can't negotiate with a terrorist. But it helped me somewhat as I was able to get a court order for exclusive possession of the family home to list and sell. But this didn't mean I moved back in with my children. I could not live there for fear I would not be able to protect the kids from him. Nothing would prevent him from making contact with the children by coming to the home. Sure I had a restraining order but those don't deter crazy people. I was not about to risk more trauma for my kids. We continued to stay with my parents as it was safer there. We are still living there in a tiny home with 7 people since this crap started. I need this to end so I can see how much money I will have towards a home for my kids. But they are asking for spousal from ME and if that happens it will bankrupt me. The system is very broken when a single mother with two children not ever going to receive child support has to pay spousal. Because he destroyed the home while he lived in it by himself for almost a year, we lost $ 200,000 when it was listed. I couldn't list it same as other comparables in the neighbourhood. It smelled of smoke cause he started up smoking inside the home . It was in disrepair and a hoarders dream. The last lawyer he got got the courts to deem him special party. He no longer has a voice in the proceedings and has been appointed a public guardian trustee. So now I am up against a public guardian trustee who wants to get every dime from me. My children will lose in the end and the pgt only gives a shit about my ex spouse. My legal fees to date have easily totalled over $120,000. I'm heading to mediation. More money spent and then there is trial if mediation doesn't work. I could still lose at trial. The only winners are the lawyers. The only issue resolved is the custody piece. I have sole custody and exspouse supervised access at a center. He has refused and kids have not seen their dad since 2014. I continue to never speak negative of their dad to my kids. I tell them every day that their dad loves and misses them but his brain is sick and isn't making the right choices. All I can do is shelter them from adult issues about lawyers, courts, and money. They are young and don't need this burden. It's nobody's fault he suddenly got sick and started showing signs of severe mental Illness. He was not mentally I'll when we married It caused the break up of the family. It was no longer safe to live with him. He became violent. Cas was involved as well and helped me protect my children. It's been surreal the last 6 years. Unbelievable! The system is broken and does little to assist separating from a mentally I'll spouse. There is no support. Everything takes longer through the system and you burn through money you don't even have. I hope you get favourable closure from your own nightmare and I'm glad your kids at least have you as the stable parent. God bless.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:56 AM
Gilligan Gilligan is offline
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Default Sorry...

First of all, many of us have been there and my case is far from the worst.


I recently ended up in court because my ex spouse wanted retro-active CS because of LTD. In my case, I wasn't really aware of it and once EX was granted LTD status (2+ Years for health insurance) she went back retro-active. I think if she did this prior to this status, she would have had to disclose. So she never has. The courts will likely accept the LTD Claim at face value, despite your EX being able to do the things the rest of us do (i.e. able bodied hard working individuals).


So, yes it can feel like (and really be like) an open buffet. There may be relief from the perspective of SS but I'm not sure (my case was only CS). I'm also not sure if you will be held accountable for maintaining health benefits for your ex. But a 20 year relationship (even 19.5 is close), you will likely be facing some SS.


Sorry, it's not going to be an easy road for you and if anything, I would say try to be careful of the legal fees, which will chew into your already ravaged budget.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:46 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
It's been surreal the last 6 years. Unbelievable! The system is broken and does little to assist separating from a mentally I'll spouse. There is no support. Everything takes longer through the system and you burn through money you don't even have. I hope you get favourable closure from your own nightmare and I'm glad your kids at least have you as the stable parent. God bless.
So sorry to hear this. It makes my situation "easy" compared to yours! And my spouse wants what she thinks is best for the kids so at least there's that..
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:50 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
The courts will likely accept the LTD Claim at face value, despite your EX being able to do the things the rest of us do (i.e. able bodied hard working individuals).
...
But a 20 year relationship (even 19.5 is close), you will likely be facing some SS.
...
Sorry, it's not going to be an easy road for you and if anything, I would say try to be careful of the legal fees, which will chew into your already ravaged budget.
That's too bad about them accepting LTD at face value. As I said, I don't mind helping but I'd like it to be a menu and not a buffet. I'd like to see how the "entitlement" is defined in this case. I'd rather not have her entitled and simply give some contractual spousal support for a few years.

And yes, I'm weary of legal fees. My lawyer is quite efficient and so am I. But it could add up really quickly. I want to avoid courts.


And in case someone else searches for BPD on this forum, I found this last night, it's a book about tips for divorcing someone with borderline personality disorder:
https://www.amazon.ca/Splitting-Prot...gateway&sr=8-1
You can be sure that if they write a book about it it's quite common and won't be easy
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:05 AM
Gilligan Gilligan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gettingexpensive View Post
That's too bad about them accepting LTD at face value. As I said, I don't mind helping but I'd like it to be a menu and not a buffet. I'd like to see how the "entitlement" is defined in this case. I'd rather not have her entitled and simply give some contractual spousal support for a few years. ...


I did what I could to get disclosure. Other than a redacted letter from the insurance company... NOTHING. So my ex gets to enjoy extended vacations, sporting events, trips down south while I cover the difference in her loss of income via increased support. There was nothing said, no concerns and the fact that there was a letter from the insurance company was enough. And the words used "it's her money, she is entitled to it..." and who are you to argue with an insurance provider.


My ex can afford to not work her husband is the bread winner and her household income is greater than mine, but in the eyes of the court, that isn't relevant.


I know I sound bitter, but this isn't fair for anybody. And yes, I think the system is very broken.
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