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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 12-10-2009, 11:42 AM
#1StepMom #1StepMom is offline
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Default CP Demands That NCP Pay Extra To See Child On Court-Ordered Days - Any Advice?

According to the court order, my husband is scheduled to have his child for vacation time for X amount of days.

The child's mother is refusing to allow my husband his court-ordered time unless he first pays her 100% of the daycare fees associated with the child being absent from daycare during his vacation time with his dad. (Please note that it is not possible for us to bring the child to daycare daily during my husband's court-ordered vacation time in order to avoid the absence fees, as we live 2hrs away, one way.)

We are planning a trip south over the holidays, and require her to sign a consent to travel. She told us that she will only sign the consent if we pay her the full absence fees for the days that the child will be with us on holidays. (This demand only arose when we requested the consent to travel. When the vacation schedule was made in October, she had no issue with the amount of days that the child would be absent from daycare due to the court-ordered vacation time.)

The court order states that ALL daycare expenses are to be shared proportionately to income.

The judge indicated in his ruling (though not in written form in the order) that all daycare expenses shall be shared regardless of the reason for which they are incurred - whether the child is ill or spending time with his father on court-ordered vacation days. (She brought her demand up with the judge, and he told her that her demand was unreasonable; that daycare is a shared total expense.)

The child's mother is refusing to abide by the order and expects that my husband pay 100% of the daycare fees associated with absences during his court-ordered vacation time. She also expects my husband to provide at least 50% of all other daycare expenses.

Any suggestions on how to go about this?

We don't want to have to cancel our trip because she's demanding money against the court order.

We also don't want to have to pay extra in order for her to agree to sign the consent to travel (even though in the court order it states that each party will sign a consent to travel and provide the required documentation without penalty, on the request of the other party).

Any advice would be great!

Last edited by #1StepMom; 12-10-2009 at 12:05 PM.
  #2  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:42 PM
billiechic billiechic is offline
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How does he pay for daycare expenses? Who does he write the cheque to? Is there a way he can pay her what she demands and then use whatever was over and above what the court ordered as a credit toward future payments? Or he might be able to write on the cheque that the payment is under duress or something.

This is blackmail. But I understand that she has waited until it is too late to do something to stop it. She knows that you will pay or else lose your trip. I also know that this is the type of tactic she's used before. I'm sorry, that horrible that she can't even be "nice" during the holidays.
  #3  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:59 PM
#1StepMom #1StepMom is offline
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He pays daycare expenses in his proportionate share directly to the daycare when provided with an invoice.

He abides by the court order and pays his proportionate share of the TOTAL expense, regardless of the reason for the expense.

She just left a voice message saying: "If you don't sign an agreement that you will pay the full cost of all daycare expenses associated with your vacation time, I expect a signed agreement saying that he will attend daycare daily during the time that he is with you. If you don't provide one of these agreements, I will not allow you to pick him up for your vacation time."

Any thoughts?
  #4  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:59 PM
dinkyface dinkyface is offline
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Sounds like you need to get to court quickly on this...by imposing extra conditions on your trip she is essentially refusing to honour your access time.

You could just take a chance and go without the letter. My BF is NCP and traveled to europe with his 2yo daughter last summer. Daughter does not even share his last name, and still NO-ONE asked for a consent letter, until he was back in Canada, trying to leave the airport. Hmm, but you will need the passport though....

Can you get trip cancellation insurance?

Last edited by dinkyface; 12-10-2009 at 01:02 PM.
  #5  
Old 12-10-2009, 01:03 PM
billiechic billiechic is offline
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OMG! Can you apply for an emergency order? I'm assuming there is something in your SA about needing the letter to travel. I wouldn't go without it, you would be setting yourselves up for comtempt.

Can you apply for an emergency motion? Can't beleive she left a message though! It will be a pain, but that's good evidence of her being completely unreasonable. Basically she is refusing access.
  #6  
Old 12-10-2009, 02:37 PM
#1StepMom #1StepMom is offline
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I just called the courthouse but they won't provide any information on what we could possibly do. My husband will have to go to the Family Law Info Centre in person to inquire about his options. He will be going to file an Affidavit of Service tomorrow (second service of the offer to settle, as the first one was returned to us "rejected upon delivery") and will ask what his options are then. Hopefully he'll be able to get some answers.

Right now, he just responded in writing that he noted her restrictions and conditions on his court-ordered access time, and that he will not be signing any agreements indicating that he will pay her in order to see his son, or that he will agree to driving the child 2hrs one-way to daycare daily during his court-ordered access time.

He also added a reminder that access and child support (including daycare costs) are two completely separate issues and are not dependent on one another in any way.

He also asked her to indicate whether or not she will abide by the court order and grant his court-ordered vacation time and provide the travel consent, or whether she intends to refuse his access and keep the child with her during the days she believes he should be attending daycare.

So... we'll see what she says.

It's unfortunate, because we had a very nice trip planned, and now we will not be able to go. We aren't even sure if we'll be able to see the child on Christmas. She is such a money-grubbing wench!

What really frustrates us most is that she has tried this time and time again, and every judge has scolded her for these actions. She has been told by 2 judges that court-ordered access is not based on child support, or vice versa. And yet... it doesn't end. :-(

Last edited by #1StepMom; 12-10-2009 at 02:44 PM.
  #7  
Old 12-10-2009, 03:02 PM
#1StepMom #1StepMom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared1 View Post
A parent cannot refuse access for not paying support. The consent thing under new rules especially in the US now, could get you in serious legal trouble. US law now requires a passport to enter and both parents have to approve that. She can prevent you from taking her to the US but not access.
Our court order stipulates that she cannot refuse us travel with the child during our court-ordered time, just like we cannot refuse her travel plans during her custody time. It also stipulates that my husband is awarded 8 days of vacation time during the Christmas holidays.

She isn't refusing access for not paying support... she is refusing access for not paying her chosen amount in special and extraordinary expenses, despite my husband paying special and extraordinary expenses as per the court order. She is trying to force him to pay MORE than he is legally obligated to, and is using access as collateral. "If you don't pay or do what I want, you can't see your son."

How sickening is that?
  #8  
Old 12-10-2009, 04:13 PM
NoahsDaddy NoahsDaddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scared1 View Post
Ontario Association for Family Mediation: Making your decision
Try a mediator. I am trying to get my ex into one there now.Why can't people eb civil?
Money has a funny way of removing any sort of civility between people.

#1Stepmom - I've read many of your posts on here and your husband does not seem to be dealing with someone who's working with a full deck of cards here. I feel sorry for him and can relate to some of the things you and he continue to go through...I've been there before too.

Mediator is a good idea if you have two people that somewhat get along but can't seem to agree on one or two things. However, a mediator (and I've used one already) will not make decisions for the two of you...the owness is on you and your ex to do that together.

From the sounds of it, the ex is doing everything possible to be difficult. With that being said, I'm not sure that a mediator is the best route to go. If only one person is going to go into the mediation with an open-mind, while the other person is completely uncooperative and disengaged, it's a colossal waste of time and money. It would be different if the mediator could make final orders, but, that's not the purpose that they serve.

Seriously though, this type of stuff is asinine. Does the ex have any vacation time with the child? If so, does she pay the full daycare cost during same? Or does she expect the father to still contribute his proportionate share? If people could be rational, you'd think they'd realize that crap like this (at the end of the day) most often just comes out in the wash anyways. How much money are we talking about here?

If she's going to deny him his court ordered vacation time, bottom line, she is in contempt of the court order...and, eventually, the courts will have little to no patience for this behaviour. File an emergency motion and have her straightened out. You can't use time with a child to blackmail someone for more money; that is essentially what she is doing here.
  #9  
Old 12-10-2009, 06:58 PM
#1StepMom #1StepMom is offline
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Mediation.... ha ha ha!

Been there, tried that... Mediator 1, Mediator 2, Mediator 3, Mediator 4... Social Services Appointed, Court Appointed, High Conflict Expert, and more!

As NoahsDaddy so eloquently said: "If only one person is going to go into the mediation with an open-mind, while the other person is completely uncooperative and disengaged, it's a colossal waste of time and money. It would be different if the mediator could make final orders, but, that's not the purpose that they serve."

And that is the story of our lives!

Mediation is no longer an option. Even the last mediator (the one you can see in court before your conference or hearing) admitted that it was a waste of time... which is what my husband told her when he first walked in to "give it a try."
  #10  
Old 12-10-2009, 07:04 PM
#1StepMom #1StepMom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsDaddy View Post
Does the ex have any vacation time with the child? If so, does she pay the full daycare cost during same? Or does she expect the father to still contribute his proportionate share? If people could be rational, you'd think they'd realize that crap like this (at the end of the day) most often just comes out in the wash anyways. How much money are we talking about here?
In the court order it states that she may have the same amount of vacation time with the child as my husband does, if she so chooses. She rarely takes the child out for "vacation" but when she does, she still expects my husband to contribute his proportionate share to the daycare costs. If we were to pay the full amount of daycare fees associated with the court-ordered vacation time, it would cost us approximately $1,500/year.... on top of paying the proportionate share of the rest of the daycare expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsDaddy View Post
If she's going to deny him his court ordered vacation time, bottom line, she is in contempt of the court order...and, eventually, the courts will have little to no patience for this behaviour. File an emergency motion and have her straightened out. You can't use time with a child to blackmail someone for more money; that is essentially what she is doing here.
EXACTLY! Now, does anyone know how to file an emergency motion?
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